To wonder what kind of idiot teaches a 9-year-old to use an Uzi

[BadLad]

m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28948946

A 9-year-old kills her shooting instructor when she loses control of the Uzi he is teaching her to use.

Apparently many (that's right, many) firing ranges have strict rules when teaching children.

Oh well, that's all right then, what was I worried about?

They have a different culture to us.

What's so hard to understand about that?

People understand perfectly that there's a different culture, limited.

They're criticizing that culture.

I just head the owner of the shooting range talking on the news - saying he didn't know how on earth it happened as they have "strict safety procedures that are ALWAYS followed".

Well except they clearly weren't followed this time were they?
Or they were followed and they didn't work?
Or they aren't really that "strict" or "safe" after all?

Bit like when the tyre people didn't bolt my wheel on and they kept saying over and over by way of an apology "This never happens". Yes it does - it actually just fucking happened!!

So a person is dead and a 9yo's life is changed forever by this act of gross stupidity. What kind of insanity thinks a child firing a machine gun is an appropriate activity?

That's interesting Dreaming but how sad to think that meanwhile people die. I honestly thought there would be a sea of change after the 2 boys went on the rampage all those years ago (Klebold and someone, Columbine) but not. This indescribably huge awful list of school shootings makes shocking reading. And it's not just schools is it.

Perhaps Bill Gates getting involved might make something happen.

People understand perfectly that there's a different culture, limited.

They're criticizing that culture.

Excellent comment Pausing. I completely agree. Some cultural practices suck and this is one of them. Just because something is "cultural" doesn't make it ok, FGM for example, or children slaughtering pilot whales in the Faroese Grind. Those cultural practices suck as well.

I just head the owner of the shooting range talking on the news - saying he didn't know how on earth it happened as they have "strict safety procedures that are ALWAYS followed".

Well I guess he would say that. Only now he knows it isn't true & that his instructors haven't always been following the procedures.

This time, it lead to a death. Perhaps he needs to rethink letting 8yr old+ children using guns that they can't control.

Only a complete fucking idiot would give an Uzi to a nine year old child. I am just speechless at the horror and stupidity of this.

And what a thing for that little girl to carry with her, for the rest of her life.

I struggle with the normalisation of guns that is more prevalent in the US. I can't get my head around the concept that a 9 year old using a powerful automatic weapon is acceptable let alone fun. It worries me, that children grow up thinking guns are usual and fun.

This girl has been badly let down by the adults around her. She was put in a situation that was too dangerous and impossible for her to control if it went wrong and now she will have to carry the burden of killing another person for the rest of her life.

this article talks of a cultural tradition to let kids as young as 4 handle guns.

The world evolves and what was acceptable is not now. Foxhunting used to be the norm - no more, kids were sent up chimneys etc. Things can (and should) change and fuck traditions.

What's so hard to understand about that?

What I don't understand about this "culture" is that it is deemed acceptable to put a fully loaded powerful gun into a 9yr olds hand for ENTERTAINMENT.

Is that ok?

To be fair it depends on circumstances and you cant just say ban all guns - some peoples livelihood depend on it and while you probably shop in Tesco or aldi or waitrose its not possible for some people to just pop to the shop. If you did that when I was a kid we would have starved in rural Scotland where Tesco does not sit on the side of a hillfarm. My grandfather (who raised me along with my grandmother) was a gamekeeper (and occasional poacher) and he started teaching me how to handle a rifle and a shotgun at 4, don't think I actually fired it till I was a little older but it goes on the person teaching and the person learning.

Coincidentally I can now wife the floor with most of my male counterparts when it comes to shooting so long as I stick to firing what I can handle, even at 5 foot 7 I can handle a 20 gauge accurately so I stick to a 12 bore and do just fine.

Lally112 Good for you, but you aren't 9 & firing for (possibly) the first time using a fully automatic weapon designed to fire off several rounds & kill as many 'things' or people at once, are you!

Guns do have a place, I agree to a certain extent, that place isn't in the hands of a 9yr ld.

I didn't think it was necessary to put in a or or symbol pausingflatly because I thought people would realise I was being ironic.

However, clearly it was necessary and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

I don't live in the United States but I have friends who do and in states that are very enthusiastic about the right to bear arms - Virginia, Georgia and Texas. Whether they are US-born or not, they agree with gun-control.

My closest friend is a naturalised British-to-US citizen white woman who lives in Virginia and talks about living amongst perfectly nice US-born white people who fear black people and arm themselves for some potential race Armageddon.

She's lived there for 15 years and is married to a US citizen who comes from Philadelphia and lived in the UK for 20 years before that. Neither of them understand the views of those neighbours.

She describes it as guilt, which may not be justified - if you are a poor white person in modern America, how much should you feel guilty? But it's also a truculent justification of guilt. She doesn't know and she lives there. So what do I know.

She not only thinks it's mad, but she's frightened. We talked the other week about the shooting of Michael Brown in St Louis, Missouri, and she said in her email 'Armageddon is coming.'

She loves hyperbole. At least I think so.

The mentality of that place is summed up in this (from their facebook age) The lad in question is 12

This is impressive!!! * (removed name) shooting the UMP 45!!! Your the Man!!! Show this to the girls at school and you will make them melt!!! Who says there is nothing for kids to do in Vegas!?!

Lally I find it completely bizarre that you think it is appropriate to use this thread to brag about what a good shot you are

Lots of people's livelihoods have depended upon industries that no longer exist.

Even if you could convince me that guns in the hands of civilians is OK (and the Second Amendment seems to come down to the argument "well if he's got a gun, I need gun") surely you'd agree that said guns, and their ammunition, should be controlled by measures such as strict licence and background check and and age limit.

After reading this Ronald Scott, a Phoenix-based firearms safety expert, said most shooting ranges have an age limit and strict safety rules when teaching children to shoot. He said instructors usually have their hands on guns when children are firing high-powered weapons. "You can't give a 9-year-old an Uzi and expect her to control it," Scott said. I had a look at some videos on their facebook page.

I saw three where children were firing. NOT ONE instructor kept his hands on the weapon while the child fired. They placed a hand on their back, at the far shoulder (I assume to lessen the push back, or whatever it is called)

So the owner saying they have "strict safety procedures that are ALWAYS followed" is either lying his arse off, or has NO idea what is going on at his 'business' & seems to think firing guns is as harmless as eating burgers!

She describes it as guilt, which may not be justified - if you are a poor white person in modern America, how much should you feel guilty? But it's also a truculent justification of guilt. She doesn't know and she lives there. So what do I know.

Sorry, that's really confusing because of typos.

She describes resentment amongst her neighbours, who are predominantly white working or lower middle class, towards others who are 'other' because of a poor welfare state and no NHS. That may be because of what she's used to.

What she's not used to is extreme racial tension.

People at the bottom of the heap attack other people at the bottom of the heap.

BeCool not bragging just trying to say that with responsible tutoring things like this don't tend to happen - not in this country at least and people are right when they say its a different culture over there and not necessarily for the better, I can also point out that one of this countries Olympic shooting champs has also been shooting since an early age and was also taught by a family member with years of experience. The point was not to brag just to point out that the whole 'ban all guns now' approach isn't really adequate for some peoples way of life.

The point was I was under the strict supervision of someone very knowledgeable who didn't just let me fire it straight away as differentnameforthis pointed out and maybe I wasn't clear enough to emphasise in my first post so for that I apologise but I get fed up of coming across the 'ban all guns' brigade, WTF would we have done in 6 foot snow drifts on a hill farm like we had here 3 years ago? I had to have a homebirth because even the tractor wouldn't get out to get me to the medical centre so not much hope of sainsbos delivering is there? no, so home shot it was then yes.

The argument on this thread is brilliantly in a 'I can't quite believe someone has actually written that shite' way.

So am I to understand that when my niece is 9 I should give her an Uzi rather than a cycle because the bicycle is more dangerous?

That's the gist of it as best I can fathom.

The point was not to brag just to point out that the whole 'ban all guns now' approach isn't really adequate for some peoples way of life.

Well I've just read the thread over looking for all the "ban all guns now" posts - and there aren't any!!

Statistics have never been my strong point but surely any discrepancy bw the number of children killed/killing others with bicycles and uzis can be explained by the fact that the vast majority of children aren't given f*cking uzis to play with. Or am I missing something?

Yes Pag that seems about right.

I have just watched that video again on a full size screen, it's easy to see how it happened when it was set to 'auto' from 'single' (or whatever the correct terms are) - but fuck me, how easy must it be to knock that setting because he certainly wasn't expecting it to be on 'auto' mode :( Age issue aside - how can they have a gun on a range like that, that moves so easily between the two 'modes'?

It is so sad to think that is the last clip of video his wife and children have of him.

BeCool, third post on the thread is:

This is why guns should be made illegal.

I see a huge difference between older children/teenagers being taught, with all sorts of controls in place, how to use less powerful guns for target shooting and hunting for food, on the one hand, and 9-year-olds being taken to a range to use an Uzi for fun, on the other hand.

well quite BarbarianMum.

I also wonder how many people get killed each year by 9 year old girls on their bikes. Because that is the stat that actually, you know, even faintly relates.

Plus how many 9 year old girls improve their fitness and health and spend more time outdoors by going to the park with their uzi compared to the health benefits of cycling?