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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder what kind of idiot teaches a 9-year-old to use an Uzi

397 replies

BadLad · 27/08/2014 11:33

m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28948946

A 9-year-old kills her shooting instructor when she loses control of the Uzi he is teaching her to use.

Apparently many (that's right, many) firing ranges have strict rules when teaching children.

Oh well, that's all right then, what was I worried about?

OP posts:
differentnameforthis · 27/08/2014 13:46

To be fair to them, they weren't the ones who set it to automatic.

They took her there.
They paid $200 for her to shot a gun
They gave their consent.

It doesn't matter who physically handed her the gun, they gave consent for it to happen.

onedogatoddlerandababy · 27/08/2014 13:46

aga I feel that you're bring deliberately both obtuse and provocative with your argument

What happened is a result of the strange association of guns and fun which exists in the States. I guess where it's seen as so normal and desirable to own hand guns, rifles etc, then recreational shooting for children is also seen as not a big deal, when tbh is should be seen as SOMETHING NEVER TO BE DONE.

Tragic accident maybe but probably one which was waiting to happen.

And for a pp, using blanks at that kind of range wouldn't have prevented his death (at least that's my (minimal) understanding)

AgaPanthers · 27/08/2014 13:47

I've never shot other than on a fair ground range

BarbarianMum · 27/08/2014 13:47

Her parents were thinking that shooting an uzi was a suitable activity for a 9 year old. So I'd go with the 'not thinking at all' hypothesis.

Roussette · 27/08/2014 13:47

The NRA sound like a bunch of lunatics to me to be frank, and I can't see there will be any change in gun laws in the US in my lifetime or beyond. There will be more school massacres, more accidents with children and guns, more needless bloodshed. I'm glad I live in the UK. This quote sums it up -

Wayne LaPierre on American Values
"Something is just not right. The core values that we believe in, the things we care about most, are slipping away." Wayne LaPierre spoke those words at the 2014 NRA Annual Meetings in Indianapolis, Indiana as he asked, "What in the world has gone wrong with our country?" LaPierre reminded that the good guys still exist, and that NRA is America's national movement to restore core American values. "We're the good guys — good, decent, honest men and women."

Yeah... right... you're the good guys - you think it's OK to teach a 9 year old to fire a machine gun. 'Nuff said.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 27/08/2014 13:47

It was me that compared teaching young children to fire guns is skin to child abuse.

This child will be traumatised for life.

This child was being put into an extremely dangerous situation by adults and at 9 is far too young to make an informed choice.

If this isn't abuse what is?

Eauneau · 27/08/2014 13:48

The more I think about this story the more sick I feel for that little girl.

She has been utterly let down by the adults looking after her.

FrankelandFilly · 27/08/2014 13:50

In a similar vein, did anyone read the BBC report into blind people carrying guns in the US? It was alarming, particularly the man who did not disclose his sight problems when getting his permit.

Article here

I'd add as a disclaimer that my dad is blind, so I am in no way being disableist.

Ev1lEdna · 27/08/2014 13:50

Gruntfuttock

No, but IMO people who think that 9 yr old + Uzi = fun aren't exactly geniuses. Trying to moderate my language here, but it's not easy.

That is very true I just don't think a blanket generalisation of Americans as stupid is helpful or true. I disagree fundamentally with Aga and I dislike gun culture as seen in a previous post but I do like a lot of Americans and not all of them are in favour of guns, that's all I was saying. Smile I'm not sure why you need to moderate language with me, surely I haven't said anything that controversial.

OwlCapone · 27/08/2014 13:52

This child will be traumatised for life.

But this incident is very different from normal gun instruction.

differentnameforthis · 27/08/2014 13:53

The legal aspect has nothing to do with this. You know what else is legal in the stare of Nevada? ... The death penalty

I need to amend this, as this happened in Arizona.

The legal aspect has nothing to do with this. You know what else is legal in the state of Arizona? ... The death penalty

Yet I don't see them letting kids have access to a lethal cocktail!!

FyreFly · 27/08/2014 13:55

Thebody - you are correct that in this case the child was severely let down by her parents. I would argue that at worst it is neglect, rather than abuse, but at this point we're arguing semantics which isn't going to help anyone.

I was taught to shoot air weapons from the age of 10 by my dad, and at 13 I joined the school (school!) shooting team. My school has now started accepting members into the team from age 12. At no point was I abused, or neglected, during this time.

If you wish to accuse my school (along with many others in the UK) of systematic child abuse on a large scale then you may certainly take it up with the police, however I suspect you will not get very far.

ArgyMargy · 27/08/2014 13:57

Yes, Roussette! "We are the good guys", God's chosen people etc etc etc. Didn't God say very early on Thou Shalt Not Kill..?

HesterShaw · 27/08/2014 13:58

Sometimes people are so anxious to prove how rational and sensible they are, and how in-possession-of-all-the-facts, that they end up sounding crazy. Aga is proof of that.

A nine year old handling a weapon designed for slaughtering people is ok "in the right conditions"? Holy Jesus, I'm speechless.

Ev1lEdna · 27/08/2014 13:59

Now I agree with this, but it also makes me very sad:

The NRA sound like a bunch of lunatics to me to be frank, and I can't see there will be any change in gun laws in the US in my lifetime or beyond. There will be more school massacres, more accidents with children and guns, more needless bloodshed. I'm glad I live in the UK.

differentnameforthis · 27/08/2014 14:00

Charles Vacca was a father, aga if (or when) his child/ren are old to understand, will you tell them that their father died so a 9yr old could 'have some fun on holiday'

I wonder how they will make sense of that.

merrymouse · 27/08/2014 14:00

Plus, an experienced shooter incurs a low third-party risk, whereas serious cyclists are unable to eliminate this risk, and many end up getting killed by cars

This was not an experienced shooter, it was a 9 year old with an Uzi.

Equally, plenty of 9 year olds don't cycle on road.

It might be true that it is more dangerous to cycle round Hyde park corner than join a shooting club. However that does not lead to the conclusion that 9 year olds are as safe with an Uzi as on a bike.

Uzis are designed to blow heads off. This one did.

Legionofboom · 27/08/2014 14:01

Some of the comments on here take a shockingly simplistic view of the USA and Americans.

This, like virtually every major issue in the entire country at the moment, has the USA polarised.

There are plenty of Americans who hate guns, who do not see owning and carrying guns as normal and ok, and who live in terrible fear of their children being killed at school by a gun toting teen.

I understand it is an emotive issue and it is beyond terrible for the child involved. But America = Pro Gun is simply not true.

Hoppinggreen · 27/08/2014 14:01

Ok, so first of all it appears it would be safer to swop our children's bikes for guns!!????
I appreciate that guns can be used for both hunting and sports so I am not totally against them in certain situations - however, machine guns are simply made to inflict as much damage to as many people as possible and as such have no place outside the military, certain not for a fun day out for a 9 year old!
As for the American right to bear arms bollocks, when that was placed in the constitution the country was a very different place and guns were necessary for some people. It meant rifles not friggin uzi's!!!
My 9 year old wouldn't be going within a mile of a gun, but I WILL let her keep her bike ( as long as she wears a helmet)

differentnameforthis · 27/08/2014 14:05

Plus, an experienced shooter incurs a low third-party risk, whereas serious cyclists are unable to eliminate this risk, and many end up getting killed by cars

The comparison when you (laughably) compare a bike to a gun would be the rider of said bike killing someone with it.

That is very unlikely to happen. I haven't heard of any bike related deaths where a 9yr old has been riding the 'killer' bike.

After all, the girl didn't get shot, she shot someone. Therefore, her action resulted in a death. Someone dying on their bike isn't comparable.

Roussette · 27/08/2014 14:09

Legion I actually get that - it's like Spain and bullfighting, it's ingrained in many older spanish as history and tradition but that doesn't mean to say that all agree with it.

I hope to God not all americans agree with the ease at either purchasing or using a gun at what seems a young age, otherwise there's something very wrong with the country.

CharlieSaysAlwaysTellYourMummy · 27/08/2014 14:09

there is no point continuing the argument with aga as it is impenetrably illogical and shows absolutely beautifully the dangers of letting the uninformed near statistics!

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 27/08/2014 14:10

FyreFly

So your experience is absolutely nothing to do with this appalling case is it?

You were shooting an air pistol at 10. Personally I find that very distasteful but not abuse.

Letting a 9 year old shoot a machine gun and in doing so she shoots someone to death is abuse.

In my view one is stupid behaviour but the other is criminally insane.

dreamingbohemian · 27/08/2014 14:14

The problem in the US is money really. Yes, lots of Americans do oppose guns or at least easy access to any kind of gun, but the NRA and gun lobbyists spread huge amounts of money around the political system, which makes it very difficult to change the laws. The gun control people can't compete in that way.

This may change however as just this week Bill Gates donated money to a state gun control campaign, and Michael Bloomberg has been spending lots of money on this issue as well. I do believe that if the gun control people matched the NRA lobby in money terms that the laws would change, there is enough public support for it in most places (not everywhere).

LynetteScavo · 27/08/2014 14:17

This is why I've never taught my 9yo to use an Uzi....

But seriously...that little girl had been sadly let down by those who were supposed to be looking after her.