To wonder what kind of idiot teaches a 9-year-old to use an Uzi

[BadLad]

m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28948946

A 9-year-old kills her shooting instructor when she loses control of the Uzi he is teaching her to use.

Apparently many (that's right, many) firing ranges have strict rules when teaching children.

Oh well, that's all right then, what was I worried about?

[OwlCapone]

Perhaps a more accurate analogy would be that the instructor was a cyclist and the 9 year old was in charge of a HGV which mowed him down.

[ArgyMargy]

differentnameforthis - it's no use raising your voice, Aga will never change her/his mind. What we might think is bizarre and twisted logic is completely rational thinking for the pro-gun American.

[dreamingbohemian]

Jesus, where do you start

You can't compare only the accidental categories of death by bicycle and by firearms

Bicycles are not weapons. If you die on a bicycle, it is likely to be an accident

And many 'accidental' firearms deaths are not classified as accidental but as homicide, so the actual number is much higher. For example, there have been cases of toddlers killing siblings by accident when they found a gun. These are classed as homicides because the parents should have kept the gun away from the children, therefore it is not strictly speaking an accident.

Guns are dangerous weapons, end of. It doesn't matter whether they kill by accident or by intent, they are killing machines. No reason a kid should use one.

[FyreFly]

I'm quite pro-gun (not as in "woohoo everyone has to have one, they're great, give kids them for Christmas" etc more of a "they're absolutely fine when you're properly trained and sensible") - I shoot (rifles, target shooting) professionally and have been doing so since I was 13. I was using air pistols and rifles at 10.

I wouldn't give a child an Uzi. Those things have some serious kick and you need to know how to deal with it. This was bloody stupid and easily avoidable. Tourist traps like these firstly need shutting down, and then proper regulations need to be put in place so that professional ranges have clear guidelines over who can use what kind of weaponry.

I feel so sorry for that poor girl :(

[firesidechat]

Grunt, exactly, I don't know why people are trying to justify mixing guns and kids.

Only one poster is doing that, thank goodness. They aren't doing themselves any favours either.

[OwlCapone]

To me teaching a 9 year old child to shoot at all, let alone a machine gun, is tantamount to child abuse.

Personally, I disagree with this. I think that teaching a child to shoot in a proper controlled environment and with a weapon of an appropriate size and power is fine. I wouldn't choose to have a gun in the house though.

[BadLad]

Poor child, whatever were her parents thinking?

It's explained in the thread. They were thinking "this'll be a fun thing for our 9-year-old to do on holiday".

[FyreFly]

To me teaching a 9 year old child to shoot at all, let alone a machine gun, is tantamount to child abuse.

Arf, who said that Owl?

I'll go and dob my Dad in for getting me into a sport I love and excel in

[wheretoyougonow]

Aga - Imagine yourself in a room. Now add a loaded gun and a bike. Which one do you think will kill you? Simples.

[elastamum]

How terrible, I feel desperately sorry for the child, who has been badly let down by the adults around her and may never get over this.

To compare this with letting your child ride a bicycle or go rock climbing is just ridiculous.

[AgaPanthers]

Well not necessarily, Bong. A hunting trip might last for a couple of days, for example. And not every cyclist spends hours cycling, that total is for all Americans riding a bike once in a year, and likewise some shooters might go to the range every day.

Also you can't really say 'but people spend more time cycling', because you have to take that into account when you decide to take part in a hobby. If you take cycling seriously, you will spend many hours on the road. That's part of the risk equation, risk per hour * number of hours. A club cyclist might spend 30 hours per week on the road. If a club shooter spends fewer hours than that, it's appropriate to take that into account when considering the overall risk.

Plus, an experienced shooter incurs a low third-party risk, whereas serious cyclists are unable to eliminate this risk, and many end up getting killed by cars:

www.scotsman.com/sport/top-scots-cyclist-macintyre-killed-on-training-ride-1-1074116
www.cyclingnews.com/news/felix-baur-killed-while-training-in-spain
www.denverpost.com/cycling/ci_24233544/amy-dombroski-pro-cyclist-killed-by-car-belgium
velonews.competitor.com/2014/02/news/in-the-news-iam-cycling-rider-goddaert-killed-in-training-crash_317412
www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/pro-cyclist-carly-hibberd-killed-by-car-while-training-20110707-1h4rk.html

[differentnameforthis]

aga, what else are guns intended for, then? Seriously?

because whether it be animals (sport) or humans, I would say that yes, OF COURSE GUNS ARE DESIGNED TO KILL!!

[merrymouse]

Although I am not interested in guns I can can comprehend using a gun to kill for food or using a gun to shoot a target.

However, playing with a machine gun is about as comprehensible as playing with a land mine. (And for all I know you can do that too in America).

[Gruntfuttock]

Well, in response to Aga's latest posts I'm just going to repeat what I said upthread :-"Wow. I don't think it's possible to ever get through to someone who can write that."

[OwlCapone]

Plus, an experienced shooter incurs a low third-party risk

The risk for experienced shooters is irrelevant in this incident.

[differentnameforthis]

Poor child, whatever were her parents thinking?

They quite obviously weren't. Thinking, that is.

Poor kid.

[DocMcStuffinsBigBookOfOuches]

Hasn't Aga just nullified their own argument by drawing attention to the fact that many of those cyclists were actually killed by cars? It wasn't the bicycle that killed them!

[OwlCapone]

Poor child, whatever were her parents thinking?

To be fair to them, they weren't the ones who set it to automatic.

[differentnameforthis]

ArgyMargy I know...I am just so fucking angry at her justifications.

My dd is 11, and an incident like this would absolutely break her.

My thoughts are with this little girl!

[Eauneau]

Aga please just answer yes or no without any of the 'cycling is more dangerous' bullshit - do you think it is right to let a 9 year old have control of an Uzi gun?

[Canyouforgiveher]

A very similar accident happened near us in Massachusetts a few years ago. Except in that case the 8 year old shot himself in the head with the uzi because of the recoil. In front of his brother and father. If you google uzi, 8 year old and westfield you can read the story.

Many americans feel very strongly that the current gun laws are terribly wrong and many of us worry about our children living in such a country and support politicians and organizations who are trying to combat the chokehold the NRA appears to have on the political process. Then on the other side you have those who think an 8 or 9 year old firing an uzi is a fun holiday activity similar to climbing or cycling.

[differentnameforthis]

My daughter is 11 now, but when she was nine, I felt very safe around her while she rode her bike. When at 10, we bought a bigger bike, that she had to learn to control etc, I felt safe around her.

I love my daughter. I trust her, she is very sensible.

But no way on God's green earth would I put a loaded gun, of any kind into her hand. NEVER!

[FyreFly]

Aga - do you mind if I ask if you shoot at all?

[BoredPanda]

I live in a state where you can open carry. You can have assault weapons without any restrictions. As long as you're over 18, you can buy a gun. I've seen people hiking with a gun- in areas where, tbh, the only wildlife will be birds and snakes. There's some hunting around here so that's understandable if you're going, but most people aren't, mostly they're exercising their so called 'God given' right to carry a gun. Guns are designed to kill people. She should have been going swimming or to the zoo or something, not learning how to kill.

[Legionofboom]

When is north America going to wake up about the stupidity of guns for all!

I am prepared to be corrected, but I was under the impression that this sort of 'kids using guns for fun on a family day out' was confined to USA. I wasn't aware of it happening in Canada or Mexico. I know gun ownership is high in Canada but I believe that that is linked to hunting and not self protection.

AFAIK in Canada any child aged under 12 using a gun must have a special licence which is only granted if you live in a very remote area and need to hunt.