to wonder where some fat blokes get their seemingly boundless self-confidence with women from...

[fishdishwish]

Whereas others really seem to struggle on the dating/romance front?

And do early experiences have much to do with it?

Its just men in general. Large number of them seem to assume women fancy them when they don't, and furthermore, that they will be grateful of their "attentions". You might as well have written why do skinny men get their endless self confidence with women from, or stupid men, etc..

I think many women are their own worst enemies.

I'm talking about a lot of those who buy gossip mags, read the 'sidebar of shame', take an unhealthy interest in which celebrity wears what at award ceremonies and consequently bitch about their make-up and outfits etc.

That's really not something you see often on male dominated websites.

I think the vast majority of men don't make other men feel shit about what they've chosen to wear, or how they look in general.

Whereas far too many females imo are far too harsh in their opinions of other females.

Obviously there are other factors at play, but I still think many women are their own (and each other's) worse enemies when it comes to image/looks.

worra

i am dreadful when it comes to award ceremonies
i suppose it is because i feel i am slagging off the stylist and the emperor's new clothesness of it all and most certainly not the person as a person

Worra not all of us do that.

A lot of your post describes the slimming world class i attend though Which is why i weigh and run. I dont stay to class.

And when i reiterate and reiterate to them that i am doing it for my health not my looks im treated like an oddity and it falls on deaf ears so ive stopped staying to class.

Believe me i have tried to get ppl to see it differently.

"That's really not something you see often on male dominated websites"

No But i did take a look at a certain armed forces website when they were trolling MN and the mysogyny, rape culture and downright hatred of women i saw on there was much much worse.

I believe RonaldMcDonald has it spot-on.

When was the last time you saw a fat woman get the hot guy in a Hollywood movie?

The mainstream media tells men that they're still 'entitled' to a conventionally-attractive woman, regardless of their own looks. No such narrative exists for fat women. They have to undergo some kind of transformation first.

The mainstream media tells men that they're still 'entitled' to a conventionally-attractive woman, regardless of their own looks. No such narrative exists for fat women. They have to undergo some kind of transformation first.

That is true, if an ugly woman gets a guy, it's because she had a drastic make over first where it is discovered she's actually gorgeous. Princess Diaries, Miss Congeniality, Grease, etc...

That said, I really am a sucker for stupid shows like 10 years younger, what not to wear, and Extreme makeover.

Ha ha ha this reminds me of a woman last year on holiday when she loudly made a comment within close proximity that my husband must have money as why else would I be with him. (He's 21 stone and I'm 9 stone btw). Um, maybe because I adore him? Some people are so shallow it's scary! It was one of these moments we looked at each other and thought WTF?

This is quite interesting, and like someone says above, I don’t think it’s a ‘fat’ thing, I think it’s a ‘man’ thing. Over the years, I have known / worked with several men who despite being hideously unattractive / covered with acne / having the worst dress sense you can imagine / BO / being desperately uncool, think they are god’s gift to women. One in particular (who had acne well into his thirties, bought his clothes from the BHS bargain bin, horrendously tight with money despite having a good job, no friends and spent most of his time with his parents) had a crush on one of my (very pretty, popular, gorgeous men falling at her feet) friends. He asked her out repeatedly, she refused repeatedly, and he honestly didn’t understand why – he had no idea she was totally out of his league despite me trying to explain it to him kindly in response to his constant head scratching of ‘why? I just don’t geddit. why wouldn’t she go out with me? why him and not me?’.

Before anyone accuses me of being ‘appearance-ist’, I’m not talking about men who have perhaps crap dress sense but are lovely kind engaging people when you get to know them, or men who have bad skin or bad teeth who have plenty of other things going for them. I’m talking the kind of looks + personality that just does not = attractive. The kind of guys that make you feel slimy just by being in their presence.

I have never ever come across this in a woman – I think most of us have a pretty good idea where we sit on the ‘attractiveness’ scale, and what our good and bad points are, what chance we have of attracting Bradley Cooper to take us for a drink (assuming we ever met him that is!). And that is made up of physical appearance, plus whatever our other positive attributes are - some of the prettiest women are the most unattractive when you meet them due to just not being very nice.

Whereas there are some men who are convinced that Angelina Jolie would jump straight into bed with them if they ever bumped into her in Tescos.

Statistically, there are more fat men than women.

Yet, women are more often publicly castigated for being fat and more publicly pressured to live up to an unrealistic ideal of perfection. Surely everyone knows that?

mice, I totally, totally agree!! A friend and I were having a conversation about this a couple of weeks ago, and I pretty much said exactly what you just wrote.

I'm fat. By anyone's definition of the word. I'm fat.

I have the most amazing partner who finds me attractive. Yes a lot of men might be put off by my weight but hey their loss. He loves my curves and big boobs. I'm constantly told our sex life is better and more fun/adventurous than anything else he's ever encountered and quite honestly I know I'm good at what I do

Thankfully some people can see the whole person and aren't put off by a bit of weight

Factually, without claiming anyone should be ashamed, I would, all other things being equal, anticipate that an overweight man would be a bit more confident than an overweight woman.

I think our culture exerts different pressures on men and women. Part of that is higher expectations of women's appearance than of men's.

GirlWithTheLionHeart
Because the media is filled with overweight blokes - showing it's ok for men to be different sizes, but not for women.

Agree. When a large woman is in the spotlight, the focus is on her weight - dawn French has a 30+ year career but a newspaper/magazine would focus on her weight - wouldn't happen for Robbie Coltrane. Same with Eamon Holmes/Vanessa feltz. Jason Manford has piled weight on recently, but Sarah Millican is called fat. James Corden is cracking the US - trying to picture a female equivalent.

There are loads and loads of chubby male stars like Jack Black whose weight is never ever mentioned. Then someone like Adele with a god given talent, who has never bought into the image or weight loss fitness video stuff is slated (by the likes of Joan Rivers - vile woman).

Also agree with a previous poster that a lot of this is perpetuated by women.

I was just thinking about Jack black, actually, tittifalarious.

In Shallow Hal, his character was never concerned that attractive and slim women wouldn't date him on account of his chubbiness, was he?

Totally agree it's not a "fat thing".

Society values women for their looks and in particular their weight beyond all else. You can be the most talented actress in the world, but come Oscar night it's all about your dress; an expert on world economic growth and it's all about your hair; or an extraordinarily talented athlete and it's about your nails.

Men are judged on their successes: personal, professional, sporting, philanthropic etc. all women are reduced to their dress size and accordingly their confidence takes a beating

I think men and women have a different attitude to their weight. A bloke wouldn't think twice about buying the next size up in trousers but I think most women would. Also, blokes rib each other if they gain weight in a jokey way. Imagine if a woman did that to another woman?

The man I have closest to marrying apart from dh is fat. When I was with him most people would have given me an 8/9 out of ten.(not model looks but fit body, larger than you would expect boobs and a pretty face) I had been out with plenty of "pretty boys" and kissed even more, when we went out you could almost hear people thinking what is SHE doing with HIM. This guy shall we call him A was less self obsessed and vain than my previous boyfriends.He genuinely worshipped me, it was nice to be the one that people looked at when we went out together. It was nice to feel slim all the time and to feel encircled and protected when he hugged me ( yes you can get this with a ripped guy but IME there is also an awful lot of look at me involved).

He is also very clever and extremely funny and we get along brilliantly but those things are not to do with him being fat. So having been out with quite a few(ahem) conventionally good looking blokes I absolutely loved going out with a fat bloke, I am sure other women feel the same.

However going out with Robbie Coltrane or jack black I am fairly sure involves quite a lot of look at me.