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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

999 replies

FannyFifer · 25/08/2014 22:28

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

OP posts:
chocoluvva · 26/08/2014 14:23

Makes sense to me. Presumably the SNP waited nearly four years to have the referendum so that the full effects of the recession would be felt. Cunning.

AD made it perfectly clear in the previous televised debate that anyone can use the pound. AS making out that he'd got one over on him was ridiculous.

OhBuggerandArse · 26/08/2014 14:24

For those of you who are still interested in the currency issue(!) there is a very interesting, detailed interview here with Crawford Beveridge who chaired the Fiscal Commission, talking about how they came to the decision to choose a currency union as the preferred option.

chubbyhez · 26/08/2014 14:25

Are you sure about that? Rhs is ib June, elections usually may?

FannyFifer · 26/08/2014 14:26

70-80 % of folk in our local Yes group are not SNP voters and have never been involved with politics.

We have had another 3 woman contact our Facebook page so far today to see how they can get involved, we have a minimum of 2 people a day getting in touch.

Polling is suggesting 40% of labour voters are voting Yes and this is absolutely what we are seeing on the doorsteps when out canvassing etc.

In my local area people have Yes posters up who would previously have had Labour posters up.

Folk are smart enough to realise it's not about the SNP or Salmond, it's much bigger than that.

OP posts:
peggyundercrackers · 26/08/2014 14:27

same old same old - why would anyone change their view on independence based on a 90 min. debate on TV that involved only 2 people... anyone who based their decision based on the debate needs to get a grip of themselves.

ChelsyHandy · 26/08/2014 14:27

You are right chubbyhez. Apologies for my mistake.

There was something I couldn't vote for because I was the RHS. Perhaps it was local government elections.

StatisticallyChallenged · 26/08/2014 14:28

I don't believe Scotland is inherently a better, fairer society either. It's meaningless rhetoric ime.

chocoluvva · 26/08/2014 14:28

What are these interests peculiar only to Scotland that are never addressed by a Westminster parliament and why doesn't the devolved Scottish parliament address them?

If the motivation for an independent Scotland is to have a fair and equal society rather than just self-determination for the priniciple, why stop at fairness and equality just for Scottish people?

It seems there's an undercurrent of 'Screw you, rUK. I don't care about your interests'. I want what's mine whatever the cost to everyone involved.

NCforAye · 26/08/2014 14:29

LatinForTelly

I agree, especially r.e. soundbites and meaningless rhetorical victories. Everything you say makes sense! Smile

I linked on the previous thread to a blog post I wrote about "positive" voting. It's intentionally more sort of poetic and flowing than fact-filled and hard-hitting because the blog belongs to a local movement that at the time was focussed on art and creativity, but I think it gets across how I feel about this:

womenforindependencenefife.weebly.com/blog/vote-for-positivity

For a while a big element of my support for Yes was real disillusionment with the current government but I've moved away from that recently. For me it's more to do with the political system which just doesn't serve Scotland at all (no matter whether it's a Labour, Conservative, or coalition government at Westminster). Like I said I think AV could have fixed a lot of the problems I see but that didn't happen and I doubt it will now for a long time.

ChelsyHandy

All I was saying was that being polite and courteous doesn't seem too much to ask. There are big issues being discussed here and quite harsh comments about people's intelligence etc don't help at all, I think. Almost every post you've made has contained a comment personally attacking the person you're debating with and it just isn't necessary. There are some really interesting and I think rewarding discussions going on here that are about issues much, much larger than any of the individuals involved.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 14:29

Due to the no pre-negotiation clause in the Edinburgh Agreement

There is no such thing...

ChelsyHandy · 26/08/2014 14:30

chocoluvva What are these interests peculiar only to Scotland that are never addressed by a Westminster parliament and why doesn't the devolved Scottish parliament address them?

Certainly doesn't seem to include the corrupt and incompetent running of City of Edinburgh Council, which the Scottish Government seems totally disinterested in, even though there is a petition for a public enquiry into its running doing the rounds.

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/petition-for-a-public-inquiry-into-the-running-of-city-of-edinburgh-council

IrnBruTheNoo · 26/08/2014 14:31

"Do you have any idea how much this is resented? What is the point beyond pandering to some mythic Brigadoon Scotland for tourists?"

Because unlike Westminster, Scottish Government policies actually relate to people who speak English and Gaelic. Why not have signs plastered everywhere in Gaelic? Not just west coast that Gaelic is spoken! FFS, how narrow minded. The Scottish Government caters to all creeds and nationalities not just the English spoken majority!!

IrnBruTheNoo · 26/08/2014 14:32

Children start to read signs when they see them reguarly out and about. It's one the first things they will pick up on in their world as they grow up. I know that's how my own learn.

ChelsyHandy · 26/08/2014 14:32

As I say NCforAye you don't get to make up the rules, so away with your poetic voting, stop telling people what to do and if you can't handle the heat of ordinary debate, then you know what to do.

ChelsyHandy · 26/08/2014 14:33

What, do you mean indoctrinate them from an early age, IrnBru?

TheCraicDealer · 26/08/2014 15:00

Statistically, totally agree. It’s something you see on threads all the time- “I’m voting ‘yes’ because I want to live in a better, fairer society”. What does that mean, exactly? Who doesn’t want to live in a better, fairer society? The iScotland campaign is making a lot of promises about maintaining the good bits- free elderly care, free university education, free prescriptions, maintaining the NHS, maintaining the same levels of welfare provision, preventing privatisation of public bodies, funding collapsing firms like Fergusons….that’s all going to cost a pile of money. Where’s it coming from? Especially when the welfare bill will increase initially as UK public sector workers lose their jobs (not all of these will be replaced with iScotland roles), financial bodies moving en masse down south and an aging population. That’s before you think of the closure of army and naval bases, including Trident, with the loss of all of the associated civilian jobs. Oh, and they'll have to establish their own armed forces and public sector.

The only increase in revenue they’ve identified are oil revenue (a finite resource, great idea- and they’re supposed to be saving some of this), getting rid of Trident and increasing taxes. Salmond was stating last night that they have made “hard choices” in respect to the bedroom tax. Strangely enough he didn’t say where they’d found this £50 million from and what sources were deprived of funds to bolster this policy. I’m sure some of those were deserving, but we’ll not go on about that.

Darling laboured the point on the currency too much- I get what he’s saying, it’s an important issue and one which does have a lot of holes in it. But the groan from the audience when he used his time to cross examine Salmond said it all. A missed opportunity.

NCforAye · 26/08/2014 15:03

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Sorry - I think I got confused. There was definitely a firm statement at some point from the UK government that they wouldn't pre-negotiate, right?

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldselect/ldconst/188/18807.htm

ChelsyHandy

Never mind. And no, I will not go away. But I also will endeavour to not insult anyone on here and to continue trying to discuss these issues in as calm and impersonal a way as possible.

IrnBruTheNoo · 26/08/2014 15:04

I must admit one of the Scottish councils tweeting 'shut yer pus' was a bit low aimed at Darling.

Chels what's indoctrination got to do with it?? If Gaelic signs are up and about children will pick up the language quickly, just as they see English signs up and about everywhere too.

OOAOML · 26/08/2014 15:06

A Council twitter account?? Which one? That is pretty shocking (and I'd say that whichever of them it was directed at).

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 15:06

Sorry - I think I got confused. There was definitely a firm statement at some point from the UK government that they wouldn't pre-negotiate, right?

Yup. But it's not part of the Edinburgh agreement. I think some labour bod got this wrong recently too....

NCforAye · 26/08/2014 15:07

Yup. But it's not part of the Edinburgh agreement. I think some labour bod got this wrong recently too....

In... good... company, then, at least?! Blush

Browtox · 26/08/2014 15:08

this isnt fucking aibu is it?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 15:08

A Council twitter account?? Which one? That is pretty shocking (and I'd say that whichever of them it was directed at).

I think s/he must have accidentally tweeted on the wrong account. Red faces all around though.

IrnBruTheNoo · 26/08/2014 15:09

"What does that mean, exactly? Who doesn’t want to live in a better, fairer society?"

I think people mean in comparison to what kind of society they're currently living in....

NCforAye · 26/08/2014 15:09

Browtox

I fear it is.