Council House Envy - it's a real thing

[LuisSuarezTeeth]

To be fair, I thought I'd only seen it on MN. I've now experienced it in three different scenarios and it's depressing.

Never mind all the misconceptions about "free housing", "subsidised rents" and all that. People who live in council houses seem to be the envy of the rental community with an automatic black mark against them because of the way they might have secured their tenancy.

I have been in my council house for 13 years and I know I'm bloody lucky. I phoned the council on Friday about a faulty plug socket and they sent an electrician out the same day. Yes it has cracks in the walls and mould round the windows but it is cosy and friendly and the children have a front and back garden. And we could honestly not afford to live in a private rent. It's only because of the cheap rent that we can afford to have a 'normal' life (I'm talking running a car and going for a weekend at Haven in August, not riding lessons and Mulberry bags! :o)

Patrickstar* me too ha ha ha

I understand the fleeting envy of the security etc but the people who are incensed by it really need to find something else to focus on, only you can change your situation

Very true. Except one of things driving house prices up so steeply has been the boom of BTL landlords snapping up property and thus increasing demand. House prices are not weather. They do not spontaneously spiral upwards without pressure.

I agree that BTL has forced up the price of houses, however, it was the selling off of council houses that created a market for BTL. The housing problem has been created by the government. Clearly people would rather have a secure tenancy at a fair price but we don't have many of those available. If we had enough council houses to go around we would not have such a problem with BTL as people would be wary about buying houses without a reasonable chance of securing a tenant quickly.
Didn't somebody upthread say that one third of council housing has been sold through the right to buy scheme? Assuming that to be accurate, we wouldn't have so many houses purchased for BTL purposes if right to buy had never existed. Right to buy is what has really forced the cost of housing up due to supply and demand.
Why have successive governments not stopped the right to buy scheme?
Why have they not introduced (or increased) council house building schemes to replenish the houses that they have sold?
I think blaming BTL landlords is really only looking at one side of the picture. 15 years ago landlords used to have much bigger yields (percentage wise) than they do today and yet there was much less accusations of them being greedy because private rental prices were not so vastly different from council rental charges. If BTL landlords charged in line with council rents today then they would make a loss and clearly nobody sane is going to do that as a business model (whether we like it or not it is a business for them).

Having moved 8 times in 13 years in private rentals, I'm eternally grateful that I finally got a council place. My last rental was an immaculate townhouse in a lovely area, but again, landlord wanted it back. This house is older, uglier and in poorer condition, but finally I have a home.

As others said, envy is not always nasty, but I think the associated assumptions that are sometimes attached, like it's "free", paid for by tax payers etc, turn social housing tenants into evil scroungers.

What is also forgotten is that if you don't pay the rent, you get evicted, just like private rentals.

Purple, right to buy wasn't invented 39 years ago...?
Many councils sold their properties to tenants long before RTB. Thatcher brought in RTB which forced all councils to sell.

My friend bought their council house in London Borough of Richmond almost 50 years ago.

as well as BTL landlords i also blame baby boomers that buy property as an investment for retirement or buy property's for their grown kids or huge deposits towards a property

yes that would cover a few on MN who have had financial help from parents

so all the above have fuelled the property boom and made renting so expensive compared to council rents

Peoplenseem to be getting defensive.
Most people on this thread are not being nasty or resentful towards social housing tenants just pointing out why people would be envious and that is quite an understandable emotion in some circumstances.
I grew up in council housing, was a council tenant myself and all my extended family still are. I was lucky, we bought our house when it was affordable for ordinary people. It was 2 times our annual wages as postmen. Today it is worth 8 times the annual wages of 2 posties. And 2 working postmen would't have a hope in hell of getting a council place in my area. You neec to get your place first, then start working.
I wouldn't blame younger postmen for being envious of me. Of course they would.
Council housing shouldn't really be making a profit for the landlord (council) the rents should go towards administrative costs, maintenance and investment in more housing. That was the original idea.
I don't think most people are saying council tenants shouldn't have security of tenure, properly maintained housing and fair rents. Or they shouldn't have cars and holidays etc. Of course they should have all these things. This is a good thing. I am pleased for them. This was the whole idea behind social housing, that p3ople could have secure housing at a fair rent and could live a decent lifestyle without having to pay the majority of their wages to a profit making landlord.

Itbmay depend on the area but where I live in London and the neighbouring Boroughs, I don't think the councils could get away with charging market rent because the market rent is so outrageously high. They would just be paying it themselves in HB anyway. Don't about new tenants but the majority of tenants are far, far less than 80% market rate.
My 2 teacher friends, working in same school and both living in 2 bed flat next door to each other in LB Richmond. One pays £108 per week to council, the other pays £300 per week to private landlord (which is quite cheap for Richmond). This is a big difference. Exact same job, exact same flat, yet one can affoed 2 foreign holidays a year and acar, one can't. Why? Perhaps it is the nearly £10000 difference in annual rent.
Their are friends. One doesn't resent the other but whobwouldn't feel a bit envious? Can people getting defensive please tell me that they wouldn't feel this way.

A PP said it is up to them to do something about it. Well WTF do youbsuggest they do?

Yes because everyone can go out and become a dr lawyer or other highly paid job??

The country needs low paid workers, shops workers, cleaners, factory workers etc. if everyone earned £100k plus a year that wouldn't rectify anything as that would surely mean the cost of living was higher?

Some people on MN really have their heads stuck up their arses! I earn a good salary but I live in the south east so a salary of £40k goes nowhere. (That's not my salary by the way) but if I moved area I wouldn't have a job and the same job would probably be paid at around a third less so I'd still be in the same situation but with no friends or family near by.

I am moving from a HA house I live in now to another HA house in a village in the North West. The private rent for houses round here is about £650 a month. For a 5 week month my rent will cost me £700. So who the fuck is subsidising my rent?

So who the fuck is subsidising my rent?
Calm down. I think just ONE person on this thread mentioned subsidies. Just one. The rest were just calling bingo.
I think nearly everyone here realises that it is private tenants whose rents are massively subsidised by the state.
Most social housing tenants are paying more than they should to a 'non profit making' landlord.
However this thread was originally about 'council house envy' Imthink the consensus seems to be that of course ther is, it is only natural, but that this doesn't meanthat people are concil tenant bashing.

Yes i know reshifter, it just really gets my goat. I dont get any benefits as me and DP both work so by some peoples reckoning we should be thrown out of our home and it be given to unemployed people. But if we didnt work and got benefits we would be scroungers, scum etc. Damned if you dont work and damned if you do.

Yep redshifter absolutely right re the subsidised ones are the private tenants that receive Hb

In fact I'm pretty sure I read that the vast majority of Hb is actually paid out to private, working tenants

My council house has been built since the 60s so I'm pretty sure it has been paid for several times over. And dh and I don't claim any Hb (but we'd probably need too in private)

Yeah, vodka , I know what you mean. I have been in similar situation. You hear one or two comments and it feels like everyone thinks the same. It hits a nerve, but in reality most people don't think like that. it can get youndown though.
That is why it is difficult to have a discussion about thisntype of thing because a few peoples ignorant comments can be hurtful and people get verybdefensive and thinkmtheybare being "bashed", but understandably so.

In fact I'm pretty sure I read that the vast majority of Hb is actually paid out to private, working tenantsMy council house has been built since the 60s so I'm pretty sure it has been paid for several times over. And dh and I don't claim any Hb (but we'd probably need too in private)

And this is why the situation is crazy and very unfair. And why I want to discuss it but it is hard to not be seen as councilntenant bashing when I most definitely am not.

Thebestate I grew up on actually paid for itself within 5 years. With relativley low administration and maintenance costs, after five years the surplus rental income would have beenninested in more council housing.. Now most of the houses on the same estate are privately let which the council is paying an average of £200 per week in HB.
For properties which they used to own and make a profit on.
Crazy.
But the fact that private tenants are subsidised is not there fault either. And doesn't get away from the the reasons why it is understable to be envious in certain circumstances. Which was what this thread was about.
The thread was not council tenant bashing. IMO the OP was bashing private tenants who felt envious. My take was "of course they do, can't you see why?"

Red, I wasn't bashing anyone, just making an observation.

100% its a real thing. Im currently renting a 2 bed flat from the council for £475 a month. The private sector, in the area I am in charges £650 for the same flat 2 doors down because it private.

See freespirit I think that's a fair amount you pay. And the private one you gave an example of is too expensive IMO. If someone earns say 16k (decent amount round here, far more than nmw) that's more than half their net salary gone just on rent, add say another 100 for council tax and 200 for utilities and that's about their whole salary gone, how's anyone meant to have even a normal life on that. Let alone save to buy a place. It's a fucking piss take and so unfair. Not everyone can be a high flyer on 50k plus, and anyway, we need cleaners, carers, bus drivers, ta's, waitresses, shop assistants etc etc

Our rents are similar round here too (midlands) My council house (semi, 3 bed, front garden, drive, back garden) is 400 a month and same houses on rightmove are like 650 private

I live in an ex council house which was bought by my landlord and now rented out privately to us. We are surrounded by other houses exactly the same which are still council/housing association. I dont care how much rent the pay or that they are more secure but the thing I do get really envious of is that they are allowed to decorate! My dds friends have lovely girly bedrooms but we are not allowed to change hers at all only put in extra furniture - I long for the day I can paint a wall and make a home my own.

I'm one of the lucky ones and I know it. I'm lucky in many ways:

1. We were prioritised for a Council House due to DD1's disability and our rental being unsuitable.
2. We had been told that it would be 5-10 years for a three bedroomed house to be available but in fact two came up within a year.
3. We had expected to be housed in a sprawling council estate with limited parking and rough areas, but a house became available in a cul de sac with only 20 houses in it.
4. We have a big garden and a driveway.
5. We became tenants with a life long tenancy.
6. Our rent is £120 per week (SE).
7. My parents were council tenants and fell for the right to buy/everyone can own a house spiel. They have struggled to maintain a mortgage for years. I will never take our position for granted and won't make the same mistake.

I agree with what you say GaryShitpeas but that is my point really. People should be able to have a normal life but they can't and when they see their neighbour who has the same income as them, being able to lead a normal life because they have a council tenancy, then of course they would be envious. It's not nasty, just natural.

If you were in that situation, wouldn't you be?

And in my area in London the differwnce seems to be more pronounced than in other areas.
The house you live in GaryShitpeas would more like £600 per month (at the most) for a council tenancy here. Still a 'fair', affordable rent. But the same house privately rented would be £1600 - £2000 easily. So a big difference and much more likely to cause envy. And yes sometimes misplaced resentment.

I used to live on a road of houses which were originally council houses. I can see if you were privately renting with kids but your neighbour opposite had their own company and was raking it in then it would be annoying.

The thing is that there are council houses in ok areas, it depends where you are. The area we lived in was pretty average really and the houses to buy were probably also pretty averagely priced (so completely out of the range of a lot of young working families these days.) so to get one as a council house would be pretty lucky I think.

As an example, a much cheaper area than where I am now but I lived on this large council estate when I was young :- 3 bed terrace £1350 a month

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-31988079.html

The end of terrace next door with very large garden and garage, Hounslow council charge £357 a month in rent.
That is nearly £10000 annual difference in rent.

People are saying councils now have to charge 80% market rent. Well Hounslow and neighbouring Richmond most certainly are not.

A few streets away £750 a month will get you this double room in a shared house :-

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-47723231.html

A postman I work with pays £130 per week for a 'double' room in a really grotty house in Hounslow. Our area manager (single, no DCs still at home) pays £129 per week for a 3 bed council semi. Is he envious? Yes. Just a little.

Yes redshifter I absolutely see why people are envious. They have every right to be. I was the same, before what happened to me (to get my council house) happened, I was in private rented with my ex absolutely skint despite ex and me earning ok money and I was envious of mates in LA homes. And that was 9-10 years ago before pirate rents went silly