Council House Envy - it's a real thing

[LuisSuarezTeeth]

To be fair, I thought I'd only seen it on MN. I've now experienced it in three different scenarios and it's depressing.

Never mind all the misconceptions about "free housing", "subsidised rents" and all that. People who live in council houses seem to be the envy of the rental community with an automatic black mark against them because of the way they might have secured their tenancy.

Ha ha can't believe it's taken this lon for the "s" word to show up

Has anyone said "handed a free house yet"?

Ahahaha if now

there is a switch to thinking social housing should be not very nice, and only for the desperate, whereas actually, it was supposed to be for anyone who wanted it.

This what I was getting at ICan

Attitudes have really shifted in recent years. As far as I can see though, Council houses are allocated on the basis of most need via the points system. What happens afterwards of course is not monitored. But I can't see the point of removing the tenancy for life or making continued rental dependent on income. You just end up with more shuffling about and no security for anyone.

More affordable housing, better security in the private sector and lower rents seems a much better answer.

I gave up my council house to move to London and rent privately. Stupid, stupid mistake. It was a lovely little house, albeit in a dodgy area. I would gladly have the dodgy area back in place of the cost and massive insecurity that comes with renting privately.

I do envy those with council houses, and I wholeheartedly agree that more social housing needs to be built to tackle the appalling waiting lists.

I do think that tenancies for life should be abolished. We live on a street of 10 ex council houses, all good sized 3 bed semis. Two are still council owned and are occupied by single elderly ladies. Those houses would be far better used to house families, but there's no incentive for the old ladies to move on.

Not read the whole thread but I think "envy" is talked about on MN like it's a hideous and unnatural phenomenon that only weak, awful people indulge in. Whereas it's a perfectly natural human emotion, and the thing we have to learn to do is not to let it embitter us and our relationships. However we are allowed to feel it.

And where would you like the old, quite probably bereaved old ladies to move too? Maybe their children live round the corner. They probably have friends nearby they are no the local shops have links to the community that stop them feeling lonely.
Why should they move? The rent is being payed they should be able to feel secure in their home in their old age.

Near the local shops.

I remember when I first looked to move out of my parents back in the late 90's. I could have got a 2 bed council flat for £55 pw rent. I could have got a 2 bed private rental flat for £65pw rent or a private rent 2 bed house for £70pw.
In the end I chose to buy a property and my mortgage (repayment) on a 3 bed house was £157 per month.
I know we all want to blame landlords for being rip off merchants and pricing the average person out of getting a home to rent but the reality is that property prices have risen massively in the last 15 years and private rental prices have risen to reflect that. The only thing that has remained stagnant (or rising at a sensible rate) is council / housing association rents. A landlord will have to pay 3 times the price to purchase a house in my area that he would have paid 15 years ago and the rent he charges has increased 2 or 2 and a half times what he charged 15 years ago. A person looking to buy a property and owner occupy will have to pay 3 times what he would have done 15 years ago. The person renting a council home will have to pay around 30% more than 15 years ago. Councils are not affected by market forces and can therefore keep rents at a reasonable level of inflation. If a private landlord buys a house today and charges only 30% more than he could have charged 15 years ago he will be making a huge loss and will choose not to rent his property, if he has a BTL mortgage his rent would not cover his mortgage.
Private rents have risen in line with house prices (possibly less than house prices).
I don't know what the answer is as it is impossible to artificially reduce house prices across the board so unfortunately council tenants will be paying much less than private tenants for the foreseeable future.

Agree soontobesix re the elderly in large houses

Anyway worry not as on the next few years I'm sure that will change and older people will be forced to move

As someone pointed out up thread you can swap social housing. You can do three way swaps as well.
So what it really needs is someone to help the old ladies find a nice one bed house with the amenities they want. The existing tenants swap with whoever needs the 3 bed. Another plus of social housing.

I know we all want to blame landlords for being rip off merchants and pricing the average person out of getting a home to rent but the reality is that property prices have risen massively in the last 15 years and private rental prices have risen to reflect that.

Very true. Except one of things driving house prices up so steeply has been the boom of BTL landlords snapping up property and thus increasing demand. House prices are not weather. They do not spontaneously spiral upwards without pressure.

I worry about how my DC will ever buy.

Right, those are some valid reasons why someone would choose a council house over private renting. All the council places my husband and I looked at were very undesirable, so I was just curious why someone might choose a council place vs. private rented. We get a rate of £99 a week which is roughly £420 a month, so we can get a much nicer place. I can understand why you would want a low rent place if you knew you were starting a job soon, or looking for work.

My parents live in a small council house. My brother's family live a few streets away in a rougher street, and had to buy their house. They have very little money, so although my brother works, they get free school meals. They were desperate for a council house and waited a few years living in a shared relatives council house, but were told they had no chance.

They pay much more than my parents for their house, and they don't have the money to maintain it as well as my parents house is maintained. Of course they are envious. They are the kind of family that not that long ago would have had no problems getting a council house.

The selling of council houses led to a lack of social housing, which led to a demand for private lets, which has led to an increase in BLTs, which has led to higher house prices. It has been an unmitigated disaster for many people.

Soontobesix. So should families in cramped accommodation just wait patiently then? It's a crap use of social housing. There are no shops in walking distance, one of them can't manage stairs so the house has had to be adapted accordingly.

If we had an adequate supply of social housing then fine, let them stay as long as they like. But that's not the case andthem not moving has significant impacts on other families who could make better use of the house.

itsonlysubterfuge - Lots of people privately rent or buy in very undesirable areas. And most of them are in very low paid jobs.

Verypunny - The problem often is very elderly and frail people will be partially looked after by nearby relatives and neighbours. Often to move them will actually mean an increase in tax costs because of the need for teh state to pay for carers.

i used to live in a street with a lot of very elderly people who needed help dressing for example. The vast majority of the care was carried out by people living in that street or the next one.

These things are not always as simple as they first appear. Loads of my middle class friends move or move elderly parents close to them so they can provide some care.

Envy is a natural thing it doesn't automatically mean anger and nastiness to others. Just that you are envious.

I'm envious of council/ha tenants. I can only speak for the area that I live in but there aren't any truly bad areas and so la housing is far far less than private rental. I live in a Non council street but pay £1050 a month this is over half my monthly income. A few streets away in an equally nice area just council housing, nice 3 bed semis the rent to council is £380 a month. So for an almost identical house that's a hell of a lot less.

Due to not being able to find a private rented house (most rents for a 3 bed place are now about £1200 a month, most more than that) I was temporarily homeless. I wasn't accepted as homeless by the council as even though my parents lived in a different town I could go to them. Also I chose to leave when my tenancy was up rather than play the system. I was told that even if I had waited for the bailiffs to evict me (I was moving as ll wanted to increase rent from £960 to £1300 which I couldn't afford and I am not entitled to help with housing costs) that I was intentionally homeless and as I worked full time I would not meet the criteria for anything other than b&b housing. Yet a man that works for the company I am hr for, was homeless after not paying a penny rent on three private rents in succession (we had calls from agents, landlords and then letters from court for attachments to earning for council tax as well as rent) he and his gf and 2 dc now have a council flat (he brought tenancy agreement in as needed proof of address for betting procedure for one of our customers)

Anyway my envy stems from cheaper rent, higher level of security and freedom to decorate etc.

Fifty odd years ago when my grandparents got council housing they both had to be in good stead, one grandparent worked for the council and got his family house thT way and the other gp's he had served full service in the army and in those days that was automatic right to a house.

Very , sadly yes the cramped families will need to be patient. The answer isn't to kick the elderly out if the homes. The answer is to build more social housing or at least have rents caps on private lets.

Vetting not betting

in the 1930s my dhs grandfather could buy a3 bed house in Southall sorry Greenford borders West London on an electricians wage. ordinary working class people could buy property, not anymore

I can see why there is council house envy, I got my council house nearly a year ago, after 9 years on the waiting list and having been homeless for the last 4 months of that.

My last private let was on the next road over to the council place I now have, they are both 2 bed properties but the rooms are much bigger in my council flat so in effect I have twice the space, the heating and the hot water work, the back door fits properly, I'm allowed to decorate and make it feel like a home and know that my tenancy is secure so i won't find myself on the streets through no fault of my own again. My rent is £98pw, I was paying £850pcm for the private rent.

It's not perfect (I would quite like a garden) but it is a lot better than most of the private rents round here.

"So should families in cramped accommodation just wait patiently then?"

Yes. Nobody is forced to have children and having more with no space is irresponsible. Those with mortgages have to live within their space or up their mortgage for a bigger house. Why should others have the entitlement that a bigger house should be given to them?

I feel like buying my house just to annoy vivienne