To wonder how you're voting in the Scottish Referendum and why?

[deeedeee]

a month away from the vote thought it would be interesting to ask

( no bunfighting , derision or soundbites please. just yes or no and why. feel free to post more than once with different reasons. No links unless independent fact or opinion, nothing from the official campaigns)

I'm a YES

because Westminster's failed to protect the vunerable and the UK's me first politics have taken us down a particularly nasty path. An independent Scotland leans towards to left and can potentially choose a better route. And if a change happens in scotland then I think that that could inspire a change in the direction of politics in the rest of the UK.

Obviously, I meant a continuing "Yes" campaign but, it's late.

I'm voting 'no'.

For several reasons:

1. I do not think we would be better off
2. It is not clear what would happen after
3. I think the FM is more interested in himself than in Scotland's future
4. My sister who lives abroad has been told that in the event of independence, she would lose her british citizenship (obviously) but that her sons would no longer have dual nationality which really upsets her.
5. I studied Scottish History and Scottish Politics at university so I feel I have a very good idea of what's best for Scotland.
6. I think Scotland will be a country that no one pays much attention too if we leave the UK
7. The YES campaign is very intimidating, I have had 'friends' and family members being extremely horrible
8. I don't think a hatred of westminster/the tories is a valid reason to vote YES (nor do I think a hatred of Salmond is a valid reason to vote 'no')
9. A large number of my friends/neighbours/family would lose their jobs at Faslane naval base or because they rely on the base.

On a separate note, I've noticed most of those voting yes come under one or more of the following categories:

unemployed
low paid
live in a deprived area
on benefits
self employed
single or unmarried couple
high school education

Controversal I know but its what I've seen

Numanoid, I hope you don't think I'm jumping on you, but didn't you say you were going to emigrate in the event of a no vote?

One thing which I've been wondering about is whether the resentment towards Westminster might not very easily be replaced by a resentment towards Edinburgh among those who don't live there? Presumably, the needs of those who live in remote rural areas, for example, will be rather different from those of the urban elite in Edinburgh?

I'm a YES for lots of reasons but mainly because I want to give us the chance to retain a National Health Service

???

You do know, olaf, that the NHS in Scotland has been entirely separate and managed by the Scottish government for several years? That independence or lack of it will make no difference?

frankie80

No one is losing citizenship in the event of Scottish independence. Anyone born in Scotland before independence retains their British citizenship, whilst those people (in addition to anyone resident in Scotland) can also claim Scottish citizenship. The only instance in which anyone might have to pick and choose would be in cases where an individual was also a citizen of a country that had a limit on the number of other citizenships they could hold.

Snapespotions

The difference is that an Edinburgh political elite would actually need to win votes from rural constituencies. Most general elections over the past 50 years you could take the Scottish votes out of the count and you would still have got the same result. This means there is no motivation for politicians to make manifesto promises or policies that would attract voters from Scotland. Whereas in an independent Scotland an Edinburgh-based politician would still need to have an eye to, say, policies which would encourage someone in the Orkneys to vote for them.

I also think the resentment for Westminster is, quite rightly, based on the fact that Scottish votes don't have an impact on Westminster, so Scotland is getting policies that the vast majority of people haven't voted for. I think a "Yes" vote would result in people in Scotland being much more invested in their government, simply because their voices could be heard.

I don't think it would be any different NCforAye - if Westminster politicians are apparently able to completely ignore the 8.4% of the population sitting on top of England, then why wouldn't Edinburgh based MSPs be just as able to ignore, say, Orkney which is proportionately far smaller and geographically as distant. I'm obviously not including the specific constituency reps.

I don't see any evidence that politicians in Scotland are any less self serving or egotistical than those in Westminster so the assumption that we will somehow have better politicians isn't one I would vote on the basis of.

Roseformeplease

As a Yes supporter I have the opposite fear - that this referendum is, at the very least, a once-in-a-generation opportunity. I don't think there'll be another referendum (or similar debate on the independence question) for at least twenty or thirty years if a "No" vote is returned, if not much longer.

That said, there is a sense that the issues raised in the debate will still need to be answered even if a "No" vote is returned. I read a very interesting article a while back, which I'm afraid I can't find, in which some high-up political commentator said he thought the future for the UK in the case of a No vote would be some form of federal government, modelled on the US and Canada, with much more "local" power invested in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

This isn't the same as the article I read but it expresses some similar ideas: www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10571873/Keep-Scotland-in-the-UK-and-give-all-the-nations-much-more-power.html

So, I do think the "should Scotland be a [fully] independent country?" question will be put to bed on September 18th, for better or worse. But I do think that this referendum has got a lot of people thinking about how things could be better in Scotland, and I think you'll continue to see people pushing for those problems (social disparity, child poverty) to be solved, even if the solution is no longer potential independence.

I'm a yes as I've already said. Even if the vote doesn't go my way, I'm hoping that the people of Scotland continue to show an interest and be involved in Scottish politics from here on in. I've enjoyed the debates, and hope people keep talking. of course I KNOW it is going to be a yes on the day

StatisticallyChallenged

I'm not saying an independent Scotland will have any better politicians than we do current in the UK. On a really cynical day I agree that most politicians are self-serving and egotistical - power should never be given to those who seek it etc! But, taking the assumption that a self-serving and egotistical politician wants to gain votes to stay in power, under the current arrangement, a party that wants power in Westminster is utterly wasting their time to think about trying to win Scottish votes, because they don't matter. But, in an independent Scotland, a party that wants to gain power really can't afford to ignore the fact that there are 8 constituencies alone in the massively rural Highlands and Islands, which they are going to want to win to get a majority.

So, even accounting for politicians being as self-serving as they can be, the people of Scotland would have a better deal. And I also think there are some pretty good eggs among the bad in Scotland. Certainly my very shallow observation is that MPs/MSPs are much more accessible here than in the south of England, where I used to live.

Frankie I don't fit into any of your categories, like many yes voters on this thread. Even if I did, what occlusion exactly are you drawing from the fact that cohabiting couples or single parents support independence?
Are you honesty saying anyone who studied the same degree as you thinks the same about what is "best" for Scotland? Must have been some course!

Ok clearly very late to this thread but just wanted to say, I've been on mn for almost 10 years (scary!!)and it's a 100% yes from me, my (d)h, parents etc too. I can't understand anyone who lives here and wants a no vote. I am middle class with a degree in a highly specialized field. In a job where 10 years ago I was paid off because the Scottish executive funding had expired and labour did nothing absolutely nothing about it! Fast forward my child bearing years and I went back to a shell of what was once there, but still there...just. I know an independent Scotland will help companies like mine put our interests at heart. They'll not pull funding at the last minute, they'll not put unrealistic demands on the company etc. We will create jobs & expand what we have. Look at what Scotland has already achieved and imagine what else we could do if only we had control of the purse strings. Scotland can do brilliantly on her own, our people are amongst the brightest in the world. We don't need oil. That's a bonus! We can elect our own governments with Scotland's best interest at heart. We're rich, we'll be able to look after our poor and our old folk and I'll be very proud to say I voted yes to be part of a new scotland! My kids too are very 'yes' - it's their future and I want them to stay here, not disappear off to a foreign land to make their lives.

Can anyone be arsed counting up no's and yes's on this thread? Or shall I wait till it's full?

I'm struggling - I've read both campaigns, been to a couple of rallies and talked to lots of people, so it isn't that I'm not trying! I just don't feel like it's my vote.

I'm English, living in Scotland, but it's likely to only be short term. However I've received my polling card, and I've never yet not voted. I could go and spoil my paper I suppose, but I don't want to do that either. I was hoping one or the other campaign would really convince me, but neither has particularly.

I wish there was an option to abstain (or devo max - I would definitely have voted for that).

our people are amongst the brightest in the world

there goes that genetic superiority argument again! We're no brighter or better than people from anywhere else FFS!

Please don't feel it isn't your vote Fantasma you live here, if you come to a conclusion you have just as much right to vote as anyone else. My sister (Scottish, lives in the North of England) would love to vote but can't (she would be a No, BTW, we gave long chats about it)

I suppose you do generally keep your bright people in Scotland for university - what's the point in going hundreds of miles away from home to Oxford/Cambridge and paying £9000 a year when you can go in Scotland for free?

Statistically. My daughter came home from school one day last week and told me one of her friends had said Scotland would be the 3rd richest country in the world - even the Yes campaign don't claim that one! Makes you wonder what people re saying behind closed doors.....

By the way, noone's too late to
The thread! It'd be good to have more YES or NO s and whys. And let the unknowable until it happens debate rumble on

Oh and for the person who said they'd changed from yes to no because of sir ian wood's comments.All last week, the media has been full of Sir Ian Wood (tory donor and tax avoider by the way) and his opinion that Scotland's oil reserves are far less than the ScotGov claims. It turns out that he is one voice among many in the field who strongly disagree with him. Yet those people were not asked last week. The SNP were, and you would expect them to give a weighted answer, and that was reported. But in a "heres the nats overclaiming again" way. Why did they not ask other people in the industry? They took an "expert" technical opinion and rather.than get an opposing technical expert opinion they asked politicians

Well devo max was vetoed by David Cameron. That would have been a winner. It must be difficult not living here as if you had you'll have seen all the hard times with the poll tax etc. you just have to decide if Scotland's future is determined by the 5 million who live here or the 14 million in the south east of England. That's the crux really. The 14 million who have no clue what goes on up here, it doesn't affect them and their political leaders who don't care either as they're not trying for our votes as they make no difference at all.

Fantasma you say short term, where are you likely to move to? The vote will have implications outside Scotland, if you think about it that way does it help you?

Thank you OOAOML, I hope I will. I think maybe as we get closer to the date I'll start to find it easier, it'll be more concrete, more questions will have been asked and answered etc.

Also, there have been one or two people who've made it clear they don't think I should have a vote, so a thread like this is good for me to read lots of people's opinions as I'm a bit wary of talking about it in real life!

Question for grovel ... How much oil do you think fracking will recover?

Fantasma, if you live in Scotland, of course you should have a vote!