There's no such thing as a 'British' accent

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Today's horrible news about the apparent death of a US journalist is not being improved for me by the chronic news reports pointing out that one of the people responsible had a 'British' accent. It's bad enough when American networks use the meaningless expression. The man has an 'English' accent, surely?

Could give a shiny shit how you feel about the use of "British" accent. A man was beheaded and this is what concerns you? Unfuckingreal.

limitedperiodonly I don't care about a poster's previous history. Nor should anyone. She started a thread and people should and will respond according to what was written in the thread.

Over here, they're not even talking about accents. American headlines are being predictably sensationalist. It's "British National Beheads American!". No mention of accent of possibility that he wasn't British. Not sure if that makes you feel better or not. :)

but come on, everyone can hear the difference in Scottish, English and Welsh accents!

No they can't.

A lot of people confuse British accents with Australian accents, though obviously to us we know There's a huge difference.
After spending a summer in camp America many years ago, the American camp counsellors could all differentiate where their fellow citizens came from ie south, Texas, New York but struggled to hear any difference in my scouse accent and my friends Dundee accent.
It's just a generalisation.

What an odd thread.

The murderer sounded like a Londoner to me. His accent is relevant for identification purposes.

Americans use the word British generically for accents from the British Isles.

...but come on, everyone can hear the difference in Scottish, English and Welsh accents!

No, they can't. As a Kiwi, I couldn't distinguish a Welsh accent until I'd lived in the UK for a while. I didn't realise that the actors on Coronation St and Eastenders had different accents either. To me, they were both just generic non-posh/PR.

I can now distinguish most regional accents at 100 paces, but only after I'd lived there and my ear had become attuned. DH is Irish, and so having spent a lot of time in Ireland, I can distinguish regional accents there as well. Who knew, again, I just thought there was one generic Irish accent.

I'm Antipodean and used to work for an American firm. An American colleague thought me and a Scottish girl who worked there both sounded the same, i.e. like the Queen.

When you're not from somewhere, your ear just doesn't have enough information to pick up on the differences.

If we're absolutely determined to talk about accents, here's something relevant.

Some of my British Indian friends identify as British and make a distinction between themselves and British English. In everyday speech, they use "English" to mean white British people.

They were born and live in England. They have a Gujarati accent local to their part of England.

But they're firmly British.

If it's a "multicultural London" accent as described above, then British is actually a far better description than English.

Although I come back to, this thread: really?

but come on, everyone can hear the difference in Scottish, English and Welsh accents!

If you're British born and bred then, yes, Owl, but as for people in the rest of the world?? NO!

There's a shocking statistic of how many Americans have never travelled outside America. Even if some Americans have visited Britain, they couldn't be expected to know that a Scottish accent is Scottish, unless they've visited Scotland!

They could distinguish it from the Queen's accent, but they shouldn't be expected to know that the person speaking is from Scotland.

I think UABVVU, and also a bit ...arrogant/naive, I'm not sure which tbh, and I don't mean to be insulting, but the OP implies everyone should be able to tell the difference, it's just a bit...yes I'm going with arrogant!

Am I right in assuming that when the OP travels abroad and is unable to converse in English to local residents, the OP feels somewhat put out? It's that sort of mentality to my mind!

And I'm really annoyed at myself for getting drawn into this when a man has lost his life! But I've typed it so I'll post it now. But really, the whole thing is really distasteful, and I hope none of his family are on mn and come across this thread.

but come on, everyone can hear the difference in Scottish, English and Welsh accents!

If you're British born and bred then, yes, Owl, but as for people in the rest of the world?? NO!

It wasn't me who said they could.

Didn't mean to create such a fuss. :) My point was about the term 'British accent' being rather woolly and meaningless. Happened to be that the context was a particularly horrible news story and that wasn't really the point of the thread - plenty said about it elsewhere and no need for me to add more hand-wringing. My objection (and I'm not upset, hysterical, weird, callous etc) is that the term 'British accent' gets used a lot in US/overseas dramas, movies and news stories but that, for a home audience served by a network like the BBC, the term has no meaning at all. It's correct to say that a person is suspected to be British from the way they speak, but it's not meaningful - to a British audience - to say that someone spoke with British accent. Imagine a Crimewatch reconstruction using the term, for example.

"Happened to be that the context was a particularly horrible news story and that wasn't really the point of the thread"

Yes, I think we got that. The public political killing of this man was just a hook on which to hang your Little Englander point.

That's why people are criticising your post.

And by the way, you don't speak for me. The term "a British accent" does have a meaning to me, viz, "one of the many accents of Britain". It conveys the information the journalist intended just fine.

And since I don't think you're dim, I don't think you genuinely believe your Crimewatch eg. (UK-only context = specifying UK is redundant; international context = specifying Britain is new information).

I don't see it as a 'little Englander' - or do you mean 'nationalistic/bigoted'? - point so much as one about journalistic standards. If our networks were reporting about someone with a Texan accent then they might default to 'American' for simplicity. But an American network would presumably add the next level of detail for a home-grown audience that would find the distinction useful.

"UK-only context = specifying UK is redundant"

That's the point entirely. Redundancy. BBC R4 (as opposed to the World Service) which was using the term on every bulletin yesterday is broadcasting almost entirely to a UK audience

Given what happened, I think that whether his accent is "English" or "British" is a rather trivial thing to be up in arms about.

I do hope that you don't ever refer to an "American" accent, OP.

For someone criticising other people's grasp and use of language, your own seems remarkably hazy.

It is not redundant to mention the nationality of a non-Syrian someone acting in Syria. This is information. It tells you the guy isn't French, for example.

Your complaint is that this information isn't as precise as you would like it.

Various posters have patiently explained that reports have gone for accuracy (being right) over precision (being narrow) at this stage. For the excellent reason that attempting to be narrow at this stage raises the risk of being wrong.

Again... I'm not 'up in arms' and neither am I saying that sloppy reporting is more outrageous than the event itself.

But it isn't sloppy reporting. It is appropriate at this stage of the event.

OP was clumsy but there was a focus on the accent as it is the major identifier of the murderer. After reading of a "British accent" I went on-line to check it out as I wanted to place the accent myself.

It is a quirk of having such a variety of accents in the UK that it is possible to place some people very accurately; in the hoax tapes in the Yorkshire Ripper case an expert placed the voice to within a few streets. And I can spot people from my little bit of a city, especially if they are of a similar age as of course accents change over time too.

I will probably also get flamed for my interest in this detail of such a catastrophic crime but for some daft reason I didn't want him to be from my home town.

The accent was obviously (well to an English and probably any British person) that of someone who has spent years in London/SE but with perhaps other elements in it. I think a newsroom with British staff could have more appropriately reported "Southern English". (And I did read that quite quickly on the Daily Telegraph site.)

What is an English accent anyway? Unless you grew up in one area and never left, who has a pure accent of any kind, particularly within a multicultural context in London? To my mind, British accent is an accurate and appropriate description as the accent of someone who is from this area of the world. Anything more specific would be wrong.

What is an English accent anyway? Unless you grew up in one area and never left, who has a pure accent of any kind, particularly within a multicultural context in London? To my mind, British accent is an accurate and appropriate description as the accent of someone who is from this area of the world. Anything more specific would be wrong.

That's a very good point, blueshoes, I agree with you.

What a ridiculous post. Of course there is a "British" accent exactly the same way there are generic French, German, American or whatever accents.

"Anything more specific would be wrong" and yet will be what investigators will be listening for.

blueshoes sorry I didn't mean your post was ridiculous. It's not . It's the opening question of the thread I meant.