BIL/SIL- are we being unreasonable? (warning- very long)

[iamsoannoyed]

This is more of a vent than AIBU. I know it's a difficult situation all round and we are all probably being a bit unreasonable.

I've posted about BIL/SIL before. SIL has a progressive degenerative disease, BIL is her main carer (their choice, they have refused to have help) and they have a large family (6 children). We had a problem earlier this year, as for a number of years now BIL has unable to work the family farm due as he was caring for his wife(FIL signed it over equally to DH and BIL), leaving DH to do it all. There were issues as DH was exhausted by doing all the work but BIL not happy to pay someone to do his share of the work.

Anyway, we have recently bought out their share of the farm, after a long tussle all round as to what was best. I know BIL/SIL were not entirely happy with the situation, and relations between us have been strained. As BIL refused to consider all other options we had to say "either you buy us out, we buy you out or we force the sale of the farm to a 3rd party". BIL could not raise the cash to buy us out, so we bought him out. PIL were upset, but understood things could not carry on as they were, and FIL in particular was angry that BIL would not agree to any other form of compromise that would allow the shared partnership to continue.

SIL is not so well at the moment, and I know she has been relying on MIL to do a lot of extra childcare. Totally understandable, and I am fully aware their arrangements have nothing to do with me. It does mean DC's have seen less of their GPs than normal, but that's not a big issue really and we all understand that at the moment that's kind of the way things are.

I have a conference (3 days- but will be away 4 nights) coming up which is for work, it was arranged a while ago and PIL have agreed to take our DCs while DH gets on with work- they are going to stay at my parents holiday cottage for 10 days and DCs are very excited about this. I should point out that our DCs are only going to spend 4 days with PIL, and then go to my parents for 3 days, who are then going to bring them home. PIL are then going to have the other 6 days as a break on their own. PIL have also said they are looking forward to spending time with their DGCs and to getting a break on their own.

PIL volunteered to take them away, that was not our idea and we would have been happy if they had only been looking after them during the day time when DH was working (and obviously if they hadn't wanted to look after the DCs, we'd have organised some other form of childcare).

Anyway, BIL and SIL are now kicking up a fuss as they want MIL to look after their DCs that week- they have known about this for ages and have had plenty of time to arrange something else. They "forgot" apparently, and now don't want to look elsewhere as "nothing good" will be available at this short notice.

They think as PIL will not lose any money on the cottage as it is owned by my parents, they should just cancel. SIL has said she can't understand why we always get "preferential treatment" and nobody ever thinks about all the extra needs she has. I know the recent situation where PIL essentially "took our side" must make them feel raw, but PIL have done an awful lot for us all and don't deserve to be put in the middle of this. If anything, until recent events I'd say theve done more for BILs family than for DH and our family (and I don't have an issue with that, just stating a fact). This includes building BIL/SIL a custom designed house shortly after SILs mobility became problematic, as well as doing a lot of childcare over the years.

PIL are adamant they are going, but MIL feels guilty that BIL/SIL feel that way and doesn't want any more upset in the family. FIL feels angry that BIL/SIL are being manipulative and has told them so. I think things may have got quite heated, but as neither I, DH or MIL were there at the time, I can't be sure.

SIlL has since phoned and demanded I tell PIL that we have found alternative childcare, so don't need them anymore. She says she's fed up of DH coming before BIL, and our DC "have got everything". Not only that, she is "flabbergasted" that we would expect her and BIL to have to arrange extra childcare on top of everything else they have to deal with- they thought PIL would want to be there for them at this time and are hurt they would want to take our DC away when they and their DCs need help.

I'm afraid I wasn't very diplomatic, partly because I'm fed up of them refusing to take responsibility for anything and partly because I felt that she was laying it on a bit thickly. I said that I had no intention of telling PIL any such thing and that as I don't interfere with their arrangements with PIL, I don't really see why they should interfere with ours. I also said that they have had plenty of time to arrange childcare, and I don't see why my DCs have to miss out on their time with their GPs. I got quite cross, but was not rude and didn't shout. SIL said we were all being "selfish" and then hung up. BIL then phoned DH and PIL saying I'd upset SIL and "that's the last thing she needs".

I might be more understanding if this had been a last minute plan, or BIL/SIL hadn't been able to find childcare despite trying exhaustively. But as they haven't I feel it's a bit of a piss-take. I also think my DC should get time to spend with their GPs, and that to cancel would be unfair. On top of all that, PIL deserve a break- recent events and looking after their grandchildren more often has taken it's toll. I think it is selfish of BIL and SIL to expect the entire family to revolve around them, when they have the ability to get extra help but refuse to do so.

That said, I think BIL and SIL are both quite stressed, and I know are quite resentful towards us following recent events which is colouring things. I was a bit sharper than I'd intended to be with SIL and I didn't intend to upset her. DH agrees with me on the whole, but does feel guilty that BIL thinks he is being favoured by their parents.

I saw them today when they came round, and SIL started up again about us cancelling this. I said I had said everything I had to say on the matter when we last spoke about it, and thought we should leave it at that. SIL then burst into tears and they left. I now feel bad about upsetting them, but also angry with them.

I don't think we've been unreasonable not to cancel arrangements, and I do get why they feel the way they do, even if I don't agree with them.

I think it would be better if we just let things settle between us all, and gave BIL/SIL some space- DH wonders if we should "do more". I'm not in favour of this, as past experience suggests if we start down that road again, it will just prevent them getting the help they need and it will become expected that we'll do whatever they need regardless of the effects it has on us and our DC (which is what happened with the farm business). Also, as we both work full-time what we could do is actually quite limited. I'm happy to help out in emergencies, or now and again- just not for it to become a "drop everything every time they call situation" which is what I fear it would become.

AIBU?

PS Sorry for the epically long post!

[minibmw2010]

I thought BIL could no longer work on the farm due to taking care of SIL and their children. So why do they need the GPs to help them? How old are their children and how immobile is SIL now? Am I right in thinking she has MS?

[Wickeddevil]

BIL and SIL are unreasonable to try to manipulate your PIL who deserve a break. Good for you for sticking to your guns.

Your SIL sounds very manipulative and self centred. Unfortunately psychological issues can occur to some people with MS, or the behaviour might be her personality alone and not be related to her health. Either way some help could benefit them as a family, it isn't a happy situation all round. I am guessing that any suggestions made by you may not be welcome.... Does SIL have any friends who could talk to her?

[kali110]

Yanbu at all! She is being very manipulate.

[Frikadellen]

Another one who recalls your old thread and who is happy it has been resolved.

You're doing the right thing with regards to all of this. Stand firm and as you have so far. If it gets asked again / suggested then why not question why SIL's family cant help that week?

I like the suggestion of a PA etc but doesnt sound like sil and bil are ready to accept such things yet. I also had assumed much younger children. it is really only the youngest 2 who needs help.

[LittleBearPad]

YANBU. I hope PILs have a lovely break with and without your DC.

[MidniteScribbler]

I remember your thread and I'm pleased you bought them out. Sounds like the best resolution for that particular situation.

SIL/BIL are being manipulative and it needs to end. The children are old enough not to need babysitters, the older ones can keep an eye on the younger ones while the parents are in the house. How much additional care does SIL genuinely need, seeing as she still sounds like she has a fair bit of mobility? Quite frankly, I think they just sound lazy and have become used to relying on others to do a lot of the work for them. Put your foot down, not just for the sake of your own family, but for PIL as well who need a break.

[iamsoannoyed]

Midnite

The amount if care SIL needs varies considerably. On a good day she can manage short distances with walking sticks, with some difficulty. She can also drive her specially adapted car, on a good day (although this is now becoming problematic). She is easily fatigued for much of the time too.

I know even on a good day pain can be an issue. On a bad day, she struggles to get out of a chair without assistance and needs help with all personal care. Pain can be an issue and is variable also.

The older children could look after the younger ones, but I can see why they'd like to give them a break, do things they want to do and have time to be a child without having to be baby-sitters to the younger ones. That doesn't mean they have the right to make the demands they are currently doing, but I do understand why they might be asking for more help than they strictly need. The way they are going about it, and the extent to which they are demanding help is the issue.

They can certainly manage for a while while PIL are away, they just don't want to. Their eldest has done quite a lot of caring for the younger siblings over the last few years, and I'm glad he's got some time away to himself at the moment.

I have no intention of giving in, and having spoken again to PIL, they don't either.

[BakerStreetSaxRift]

I also remember your last thread, you are being more than fair OP

[RoadKillBunny]

I remember your last thread about the farm and think that you have made the best desist on possible for all and I believe the only one that will give the farm the best chance of continuing profitability and sustainability as a family farm.

While I completey understand your BIL & SIL wanting their older children to have a break from the responsibilities of being the children of a disabled parent I fail to see why it should be the one week where your PIL get to spend a few day with their other grandchildren followed by a few days holiday for themselves.

I have a chronic, very painfull and progressive disability, nothing as devistating as your SIL but does mean I can understand some of the problems she and her family face and I have to agree with those before me that have said that she is still in denial about her long term prognosis (I really understand this, it took me a masdive about of time to accept I was never going to get better and longer still to accept I was only going to get worse in many ways although like your SIL my condition varies day to day) and along side that has become so accustomed to the (frankly remarkable) level of support and help from the family (but her own family seem off the hook, wonder if they are more accustomed to her underlying personality) and now when things have reached breaking point with the farm the result has been that they feel (wrongly but still genuinely) abandoned.
I would if at all possible try to see if a way of suggesting they seak family counciling both to deal with the demands if rising care needs and the implications of such and for their greif on the loss of their in visioned future together as a family that now is so tragically different.

You know YANBU, continue as you are, do not feel like you are responsible for SILS upset over this, the outcome of her phone call to you and her visit are doily her own responsibility. You have acted impeccably and with enormous compassion in a situation where quite frankly you would not her been unreasonable to loose the plot completely.

I hope your children have a lovely time, your PILS have a lovely break, your conformance goes well, your DH enjoys the freedom to work your farm in a way that secures it's future and maybe, just maybe your BIL and SIL are able to look at the events of the past year and realise something has to give for them and they are the ones who will need to take responsibility for that.

(Sorry for the super long post, I kept having more to say )

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

Your poor sister in law is having to face up to a terrible thing. Her illness is going to rob her of her own strenght and mobility and maybe her sight, It is going to impact on her relationship with her husband and her relationship with her children. Everyone she loves will, to some degree have a worse life because of her illness.

That's a massive thing to face up to. It takes an incredibly strong person to put your own care and needs in the hands of a stranger and essentially let your family get on with their lives without you taking much of a role. I can understand why she is, essentially, clinging on to being the big focus in her husband's life by wanting him to take the caring role.

I don 't know what else to say, it's just so sad. I don't think she is behaving like some manipulative attention seeker. Just a very, very frightened woman.

[RoadKillBunny]

again for all the typos, my own condition effects my hands and fingers making my typing resmple a toddler hitting they keys then mix in auto correct so as to not make errors stand out as they are after all spelt correctly, just the wrong blooming words! I hope at least the sentiment of my posts can be decoded!

[ZenGardener]

I have a friend who is a bit like this. She has had some health problems but she also seems to have this need that people help her. Things that she is perfectly capable of doing but she'll put a shout out on Facebook. We've all been gently trying to encourage her to be a bit more independent. Especially as it is money things she asks for. She started a new job recently so I thought things would improve but she is still asking for things all the time. She's no financially worse off than any of us but I think having people help her really helps with her depression and perhaps boosts her self-esteem. We have been trying to encourage her with words but not send her things any more.

The reason I mention it is because I remember another woman (friend of a friend) who is the same. She is long-term sick but keeps asking for help with this and that but my friend commented that she seemed to have a need for people to help her. She can quite easily google something but instead will call my friend to ask her. She has been remarkably patient with her but I do wonder if it is a thing. I mean there is some psychology behind the neediness?

I think you are right to set firm boundaries but perhaps they need psychological reassurance from you, if that makes sense? They are probably terrified of how they are going to cope in the future and perhaps their reliance on family is a manifestation of that? They probably do think that the world revolves around her illness as their world revolves around her illness. Perhaps you could make positive comments about how well the children are doing, what a fantastic father BIL is, that sort of thing? It seems maybe they need their self-esteem boosting and reassurance that they can cope in the future. Perhaps SIL sees getting outside help in as some sort of failure so you could reassure her that lots of people get help in the home and try and put a positive spin on it.

Anyway, not sure of any of this makes sense but it's just a thought.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

Agree with TinklyLittleLaugh.

Plus, as well as having to live with loosing her ability to walk, loosing her ability to drive, loosing her sight, loosing her ability to carry out her own personal care ... this poor woman also has to live with the fact that, because of her, her DH was forced to sell his share of the family farm, which he had expected to own (equally with his brother) for the whole of his life and pass on to his children, as his parents had passed on to their children.

That is a lot for one sick woman to live with. Like TinklyLittleLaugh, I too do not think "she is behaving like some manipulative attention seeker. Just a very, very frightened woman."

[KoalaDownUnder]

YANBU. At all.

[MadonnaKebab]

But, ADish, her DH wasn't forced to sell his share in the family farm.
They were given other options, including getting a paid carer for her so that her DH could work on the farm , or paying a farm worker to cover his work commitments, or combinations of both

They refused all compromises, and after years of carrying his brother and his family, OP 's DH was unable to continue as it was damaging his own family too much. The stalemate had to be broken.

With all sympathy for this woman's troubles, dragging everyone else in the extended family down with her is not going to help long term

[lastnightIwenttoManderley]

Sorry if this has been asked but I understand that PIL are BILs parents? Are SILs parents around?

I don't know how old PIL are but it does seem that, whilst unquestionably scary, BIL and SIL do need a more robust long term plan.

[TheMaddHugger]

Sil was likely a controlling person even before she became terribly ill.

(((((((((((((((((((((((Huge Hugs)))))))))))))))) OP

I too am glad the Farm issue was sorted, even If Bil doesn't like it. Bil also wouldn't have liked it if he had to 'Pay' your DH for Bil's share of the work.

[RandomMess]

SILS parents are around but aren't asked to help out as much

FIL is so old that he's formally retired from running the farm

They can afford to pay for help - an au pair or a nanny but don't want to

SIL on a good day can walk with sticks & drive her mobility car - what my friend would give to do that - her condition is recognised as being more painful than MS & she has the worst case probably within the UK so I'm sorry the SIL is so frightened but she has no right to "steal" the PILs retirement in order that her own dc or parents don't need to help nor that they don't have to pay for childcare. Somehow they need to face up to that.

[sonjadog]

I can completely understand that they want their older kids to have a break from helping out with the younger, but it doesn't have to be the same week that your PILs are away with your kids.

[diddl]

Perhaps ILs could take BILs older kids away to "give them a break" at some point?

I don't think that you should alter what has been planned.

Sounds very stressful for everyone, but ILs deserve a break!

[mustbetimeforacreamtea]

Perhaps SILs family don't do much because they tell her when she's BU and don't let her take the p*ss? Just a thought.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

I can't remember if you said if SIL had any family living nearby.

Does she have parents, OP? Are they close at hand?

[thegreylady]

The answer is respite care for sil even though she doesn't want it. I was in the sad position of having both a father and a husband with MS. Dad's was relentlessly progressive from his mid thirties until he died aged 72 only able to move his head. Most of the time Mum cared for him at home with the help of district nurses but every year he had two weeks respite care so Mum could have a holiday.
Dh had a more aggressive MS which was initially relapsing/remitting until he died aged 44. He also had respite care to enable dc and me to have holidays.
If your sil really wont go into a respite home then they should pay for temporary help in the home. What about sil's parents? Couldn't they help for those few days?

[thegreylady]

Could your pil perhaps take the two youngest away with them and your dc? Not ideal bu perhaps a solution?

[mimishimmi]

Greylady's is a good idea. Could your PiL take the youngest 2 of theirs along with yours? That way the older kids get a bit of a break from caring for younger siblings, the younger ones get to spend time with their cousins, BiL doesn't have to worry about looking after the older kids. The only thing is it doesn't give your PiL's a complete break which they do sound badly in need of themselves.