BIL/SIL- are we being unreasonable? (warning- very long)

[iamsoannoyed]

This is more of a vent than AIBU. I know it's a difficult situation all round and we are all probably being a bit unreasonable.

I've posted about BIL/SIL before. SIL has a progressive degenerative disease, BIL is her main carer (their choice, they have refused to have help) and they have a large family (6 children). We had a problem earlier this year, as for a number of years now BIL has unable to work the family farm due as he was caring for his wife(FIL signed it over equally to DH and BIL), leaving DH to do it all. There were issues as DH was exhausted by doing all the work but BIL not happy to pay someone to do his share of the work.

Anyway, we have recently bought out their share of the farm, after a long tussle all round as to what was best. I know BIL/SIL were not entirely happy with the situation, and relations between us have been strained. As BIL refused to consider all other options we had to say "either you buy us out, we buy you out or we force the sale of the farm to a 3rd party". BIL could not raise the cash to buy us out, so we bought him out. PIL were upset, but understood things could not carry on as they were, and FIL in particular was angry that BIL would not agree to any other form of compromise that would allow the shared partnership to continue.

SIL is not so well at the moment, and I know she has been relying on MIL to do a lot of extra childcare. Totally understandable, and I am fully aware their arrangements have nothing to do with me. It does mean DC's have seen less of their GPs than normal, but that's not a big issue really and we all understand that at the moment that's kind of the way things are.

I have a conference (3 days- but will be away 4 nights) coming up which is for work, it was arranged a while ago and PIL have agreed to take our DCs while DH gets on with work- they are going to stay at my parents holiday cottage for 10 days and DCs are very excited about this. I should point out that our DCs are only going to spend 4 days with PIL, and then go to my parents for 3 days, who are then going to bring them home. PIL are then going to have the other 6 days as a break on their own. PIL have also said they are looking forward to spending time with their DGCs and to getting a break on their own.

PIL volunteered to take them away, that was not our idea and we would have been happy if they had only been looking after them during the day time when DH was working (and obviously if they hadn't wanted to look after the DCs, we'd have organised some other form of childcare).

Anyway, BIL and SIL are now kicking up a fuss as they want MIL to look after their DCs that week- they have known about this for ages and have had plenty of time to arrange something else. They "forgot" apparently, and now don't want to look elsewhere as "nothing good" will be available at this short notice.

They think as PIL will not lose any money on the cottage as it is owned by my parents, they should just cancel. SIL has said she can't understand why we always get "preferential treatment" and nobody ever thinks about all the extra needs she has. I know the recent situation where PIL essentially "took our side" must make them feel raw, but PIL have done an awful lot for us all and don't deserve to be put in the middle of this. If anything, until recent events I'd say theve done more for BILs family than for DH and our family (and I don't have an issue with that, just stating a fact). This includes building BIL/SIL a custom designed house shortly after SILs mobility became problematic, as well as doing a lot of childcare over the years.

PIL are adamant they are going, but MIL feels guilty that BIL/SIL feel that way and doesn't want any more upset in the family. FIL feels angry that BIL/SIL are being manipulative and has told them so. I think things may have got quite heated, but as neither I, DH or MIL were there at the time, I can't be sure.

SIlL has since phoned and demanded I tell PIL that we have found alternative childcare, so don't need them anymore. She says she's fed up of DH coming before BIL, and our DC "have got everything". Not only that, she is "flabbergasted" that we would expect her and BIL to have to arrange extra childcare on top of everything else they have to deal with- they thought PIL would want to be there for them at this time and are hurt they would want to take our DC away when they and their DCs need help.

I'm afraid I wasn't very diplomatic, partly because I'm fed up of them refusing to take responsibility for anything and partly because I felt that she was laying it on a bit thickly. I said that I had no intention of telling PIL any such thing and that as I don't interfere with their arrangements with PIL, I don't really see why they should interfere with ours. I also said that they have had plenty of time to arrange childcare, and I don't see why my DCs have to miss out on their time with their GPs. I got quite cross, but was not rude and didn't shout. SIL said we were all being "selfish" and then hung up. BIL then phoned DH and PIL saying I'd upset SIL and "that's the last thing she needs".

I might be more understanding if this had been a last minute plan, or BIL/SIL hadn't been able to find childcare despite trying exhaustively. But as they haven't I feel it's a bit of a piss-take. I also think my DC should get time to spend with their GPs, and that to cancel would be unfair. On top of all that, PIL deserve a break- recent events and looking after their grandchildren more often has taken it's toll. I think it is selfish of BIL and SIL to expect the entire family to revolve around them, when they have the ability to get extra help but refuse to do so.

That said, I think BIL and SIL are both quite stressed, and I know are quite resentful towards us following recent events which is colouring things. I was a bit sharper than I'd intended to be with SIL and I didn't intend to upset her. DH agrees with me on the whole, but does feel guilty that BIL thinks he is being favoured by their parents.

I saw them today when they came round, and SIL started up again about us cancelling this. I said I had said everything I had to say on the matter when we last spoke about it, and thought we should leave it at that. SIL then burst into tears and they left. I now feel bad about upsetting them, but also angry with them.

I don't think we've been unreasonable not to cancel arrangements, and I do get why they feel the way they do, even if I don't agree with them.

I think it would be better if we just let things settle between us all, and gave BIL/SIL some space- DH wonders if we should "do more". I'm not in favour of this, as past experience suggests if we start down that road again, it will just prevent them getting the help they need and it will become expected that we'll do whatever they need regardless of the effects it has on us and our DC (which is what happened with the farm business). Also, as we both work full-time what we could do is actually quite limited. I'm happy to help out in emergencies, or now and again- just not for it to become a "drop everything every time they call situation" which is what I fear it would become.

AIBU?

PS Sorry for the epically long post!

[ADishBestEatenCold]

I remember your other thread. There were certainly a lot of issues and I do remember that your DH's Brother did not want to sell his share of the farm, but refused all other possible compromises.

A very difficult situation then and very difficult now, but if PIL ended up 'siding' with you and your DH (yes ... I know you tried very hard to find other ways first), then your DH's Brother probably feels he was forced to sell his share of the farm, against all his hopes.

Now this ... I think the only possible thing you can do is leave it to the PIL to decide and deal with. This situation (if a remember rightly) is of a sort where there can be no winners.

Am I remembering rightly in thinking that in your SIL's case, her condition is possibly likely to follow a particularly severe path. I can't remember if you had said she had already lost a lot of mobility. How seriously affected is she? Will she at some point possibly face other serious disability ... maybe also reduced motor control, possible blindness, reduced mental capacity, early death and ... if so ... are they already very dependent on family help? (I am sorry if I'm totally wrong here, I know the illness can follow a much less dramatic, longer-term course ... I just thought I remembered from the last thread it being said your SILs condition was of a more severe sort).

If I'm remembering rightly, then you all have a really tough time ahead (especially your SIL, BIL and their family) but I do think you have got to let your PIL make their own decisions with regards to whether they put BIL and SIL's needs ahead of their own.

[Vitalstatistix]

I think you all have to stick to your guns.

This is painful for them because it's probably the first time they haven't got their own way through tantrums and manipulation.

If you back down now - you only reinforce their belief that their needs and wants always come first and everyone must bend to their will.

This is going to be hard for them. It'll be a genuine shock. They will probably actually feel really hard done by. This is because they've been pandered to for so long.

It is no reason to continue to pander.

[flyingtrue]

YANBU, give them space. Sad as it is about their situation they do, from this and your last post, sound very manipulative and wanting their own way. I expect that not getting their own way over the farm has pushed them to try to claw back some semblance of control by demanding all of you change your plans for them. The fact that all of you are calling them on it and not bowing down to them is probably very stressful and emotional for them.

Everyone needs to keep calling them on their shit and refusing to pander to them. There's helping each other out and there is 'their way only'. It seems with your SIL/BIL there's no helping both ways or compromise, it's their way only and they aren't used to being told no.

[flyingtrue]

And keep giving them space, you all should. If you don't, if you 'try to make it good' you'll only reinforce the idea that they are right and they can manipulate you. Before you know it you will be compromising fully and finding other childcare.

Sorry to say but, like misbehaving children, manipulative adults need to learn boundaries and need 'time outs' to think about their behaviour.

[SarahAndFuck]

I also meant to add hugs and to my post, because you sound very much like you need and deserve them.

I do feel very sorry for your SIL and BIL, it must be a difficult and frightening situation for them.

But your PIls deserve a break, your children deserve to see their grandparents, you and your DH deserve to be able to ask for and receive help when you need it and you've all done as much as can possibly be asked of you to come up with solution after solution to help everybody.

I agree with ADishBest though, if you can leave your PILs to discuss things with them then that will help a difficult situation. Not easy though, if SIL is contacting you to ask you to lie to PILs about the childcare etc.

I hope you can all get through this without falling out too badly or being made to feel guilty. Because neither you, your DH, nor your PILs have done anything wrong.

[picnicbasketcase]

YANBU to stick to plans that you made and that they were aware of well in advance. They are being massively selfish to expect everyone to arrange everything around what they want or need. It's awful that your SIL is disabled obviously, but why can't she and BIL look after their own children for a week when he's not involved in the farm anymore? Or get some extra help from a babysitter?

[FunLovinBunster]

YANBU.
Stick to your guns.

[MammaTJ]

I am so glad you got the farm issue sorted. Now, stick to your uns over this.

Your DC deserve some time with their GPs and the GPs deserve time with them and a break.

I don't doubt BIL and SIL need the help and support but this is a few days they will have to do without it. They have had plenty of notice!

[Bogeyface]

I think her illness is a red herring tbh. She sounds the sort that would be like this anyway and her illness is just another weapon she can use in order to get her own way. I know several people who are like this (one being my own SIL) and they use whatever they can to manipulate people.

Stick to your guns and support your PIL in doing it too.

[Bogeyface]

I am also suspicious of the timing of this demand too. What a coincidence that they happen to need your PIL to babysit the exact same week that they are away with your DC. Smells of revenge to me.

[Marcelinewhyareyousomean]

Why do they need the help of your ils that week? Do they always need help with their dc?


You all deserve a break.

[jay55]

Echoing others really pleased the farm has been sorted out.

You know youre not being unreasonable. Its just a few days and they still have time to find someone if they really cant manage.

[iamsoannoyed]

Sorry for lack of response, been away.

Thanks for all your replies. Although the buy-out has caused a degree of hurt and upset, I think it has worked out for the best for all concerns- BIL and his family included. They now have the resources to buy in help if they want to, and if managed well should have more than enough to provide a decent income while also allowing BIL not to work, meaning he can care for his DW for as long as he is willing/able. It will take a while to for the dust to settle, but I hope eventually BIL will accept it.

As to why they need extra help this particular week- they've had help all through the school holidays as SIL has had a relapse in her condition and BIL has had to do more caring than usual. BIL feels he can't manage SIL and the children at the moment. He has refused to ask for emergency/respite care as SIL does not want that.

They were told about this planned holiday months ago, and reminded again at the beginning of July and again last week. They did not make any comment when told originally and have not made any other arrangements despite knowing they had to. Which seems an odd thing to do, so I can only assume it was either a genuine oversight by a stressed and exhausted couple (if giving benefit of the doubt) or they are trying to be manipulative/punishing everyone for the perceived slight re the farm.

In response to ADish:

You are right, SIL does one of the more severe forms of MS. Her mobility is restricted but the severity of this is variable. Some days she needs a wheelchair, some days she manages with sticks. They have a specially adapted car, which she can use most of the time. She has quite a lot of pain, although again the degree is variable, and she is beginning to have some minor difficulties (at present) with her vision which I understand may limit her ability to drive in the not-to-distant future.

I totally understand that she needs extra help, and I have no issue if PIL want to do lots of childcare- totally up to them. I also understand that BIL/SIL may feel raw and short changed regarding the farm- but they had options and would not compromise. They have their share of the responsibility for the situation that arose too.

I do think BIL and SIL need to think about getting in more support for themselves, as PIL may not always be able to help. And I don't see why I should change our plans, plans which PIL don't want to change, because it doesn't suit BIL/SIL. I am not trying to tell force PIL into anything- although admit I would be upset if they cancelled on DC at this stage.

[sonjadog]

Please don't change your plans for them. You, your DCs and your PiL are allowed to make plans that do not involve your BiL and SIL. This sounds a lot like them trying to manipulate you all into doing their bidding. If you give in, then you will have this time and time again. It's better to put your foot down now.

[Groovee]

I remember you previous thread. I have a condition which has flare ups but I just have to get on with it, and your BIL will just have to get on with it too as he chose to have 6 children along with his wife.

You so are not being unreasonable but I think they are unable to think outwith their own small life.

[PeachyParisian]

YANBU I remember your previous thread,glad you sorted the farm issue out.

SIL is being ridiculous, childcare arrangements aren't anyone's problem but hers and BILs. MIL isn't under any obligation to look after their DCs and deserves a break and it will be nice for your DCs to spend some time with them too.

Don't give in, and don't feel guilty!

[iamsoannoyed]

oh, and I wills stick to my guns regarding this- the situation cannot be allowed to get into a similar state as before (although over a different issue). DH knows he has to be strong too- it just upsets him that his brother is upset, and struggling, and also that BIL thinks he is being sidelined by their parents in favour of DH.

I am sorry SIL is unwell, and feel for BIL and their DC too. We are happy to help where we can, but I am not prepared to be dictated to, nor at the beck-and-call of SIL/BIL at all times.

[maddening]

I think find details of a nanny service for during the day in their own home and say that when you are back from your conference with Dh or you will pop in to help with bath time.

So offering tohelp them with the bit that they themselves have fallen short on (their own fault) is more than enough of a gesture on your part.

[pictish]

You, your DCs and your PiL are allowed to make plans that do not involve your BiL and SIL.

That is the crux of it isn't it? Bil and sil don't own any of you.

You all sound like a very supportive and caring bunch btw. Very much so.

[pictish]

I am sorry SIL is unwell, and feel for BIL and their DC too. We are happy to help where we can, but I am not prepared to be dictated to, nor at the beck-and-call of SIL/BIL at all times.

Tell them that.

[eddielizzard]

i think you've done the right thing actually. you have stood up for yourself and your dc's and of course she doesn't like that. seems to me that they are not actually coming to terms with their situation by getting their support network in place, but are expecting the family to shoulder the burden.

it seems to me that while your pil try to do as much as they can, at some point they need a break too. the shit is now hitting the fan because your sil is being required to acknowledge that she can't cope without significant help and is angry you all are not picking up the slack.

you have to let her work this out and start to pay people to help - child care, carers, nurses, whatever is needed. only way. you and your pil just can't be at her beck and call forever, 24x7.

[pictish]

I agree. While anyone with a grain of empathy would sympathise enormously with their difficulties, they really can't hope to go on with the premise that it's all about them all of the time, and screw everyone else.

That's ridiculous.

[DartmoorDoughnut]

YANBU, another who remembers your previous thread re the farm, glad a solution was reached.

Your PILs want a holiday and they want to spend some time with your DCs, that is their choice (and a good one!). Sadly for your ill SIL (and I do feel for her my much loved and much missed godfather had MS) she'll have to suck it up for that week, not ideal for them but frankly that is tough, it isn't as if it should come as a surprise after all of your reminders! It would probably help if she weren't so demanding.

[BlackeyedSusan]

I am so glad you got the situation with the farm sorted out. it could not continue as it was. They could not free load any more.

pils have the right to choose what they want to do. throwing a strop should not be reason to change.

while I generally think that some accomodation and leeway be given in situations where one member of the family needs extra support or care, the family has gone way past that, supporting with the farm not getting anything in return and pils helping out with childcare.

[iamsoannoyed]

the shit is now hitting the fan because your sil is being required to acknowledge that she can't cope without significant help

I think this is the problem- SIL does not want "outside" carers or "strangers" in her home. She doesn't see that sooner or later, she is going to need more care than BIL can provide while also caring for their sizeable family. They have the resources to provide this care (and would also qualify for care).

Instead, they prefer to rely on family- which is fine, up to a point. I think that point was reached a while ago. They need to come to terms with the fact things are not as they want them to be, they need help and their family cannot and will not be able to do everything they want to, as we also have our own lives to live. As I said, we are happy to help where we can in smaller ways and would always help out in an emergency if at all possible.

SIL family don't seem to have the same expectations placed on them, which I find quite irritating.