To wonder when everything changed to be in favour of children.

[Pipbin]

Stands back and prepares for a flaming.

When I was little, in the 70s, children were seen as being a pain. Children weren't allowed in pubs and rarely seen in restaurants. If there were 4 seats and 5 people a child was expected to stand up and let the adults sit down. There was no such thing as soft play. If you were bored then tough shit, deal with it. You could be hit at school and be smacked by your parents. A birthday party was 10 friends a cake and some jelly and ice cream at your house. Children's television was 3 hours a day and Saturday mornings.

Now it seems to be quite the opposite, the needs of a child seem to trump all adult needs. Children are treated with kid gloves at all times. Birthday parties are bigger and better every year.

I'm not saying that the 70s was better, far from it, but has is swung too far? Is this why we now have some people who act so entitled? I'm not saying that either is right, I'm just interested to hear the opinions of others.

Lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe distance.

My experience is quite the opposite, OP. I spent a lot of my childhood in the pub whereas I rarely see kids in pubs these days, other than ones that market themselves as 'family' places and they're having a meal. I, otoh, used to be there for hours at a time and made do with an orange juice and crisps.

I've never seen kids sitting & adults standing anywhere. If on public transport, I wouldn't expect a very young child to stand, but other than that.

Also agree that I'm glad we live in a world where children have rights, are respected and listened to. I also think there's many countries that are much more child-centred than the UK, we're a bit crap tbh.

What I DO think is a sad loss from the 70s is the move away from a big investment in public goods (such as state education and the NHS) and the income redistribution of the 70s.
It was a less economically unequal society (possibly at the roots of your nostalgia for low-outgoings kids'parties) and I suspect there was less individual disposable income.
I wish we had kept on with that model, whilst simultaneously moving to greater awareness of equality in the social cohere.

We are still a long way from the family friendly society we could be.

Totally agree.

I was born in the late 70s and had a great childhood. It more resembles my DD's than yours. I had great birthday parties. My DM worked, so the weekends were all about quality family time. We were taken to restaurants.

I wonder whether thecatfromjapan is right about women's status. Most of my friends had two working parents and their lives were quite like mine, though perhaps not as indulged as I was.

I dont know about the 70s but I grew up in the 80s and my childrens lives are pretty similar to mine as a child

thecat that's a really interesting point about women having increased disposable income/financial control.

It's largely children of the seventies who are raising kids at the moment, though - so maybe the general direction of more and more child-centred stuff is as a result of the benign neglect parenting style from then? Just a thought

Interesting point about the change of women as primary carers and women working. As a child few of my friends mothers worked.
I think you are quite right.
I personally like having children in pubs, however I do steer clear of 'child friendly' pubs like Thrashers.

I agree with you to a degree.

I don't think children are anymore spoiled than at any other time but I do find the attitude of some parents very odd.

The wanting special treatment in shops/restaurants etc that you see on MN sometimes because its for a child (complaining you can't get breakfast food after breakfast has finished because its for the CHILD you know! or getting pissy when told you can't whip out a potty for your child to shit in in a shop - both MN threads!).

And the 'my child has just as much right to be in the restaurant/cinema/wedding ceremony as you' even if they are constantly screaming and ruining it for everyone else kind of thing.

But as is often said..MN isn't real life!.

You were in the wrong seventies

I went to pubs, went to restaurants every Friday and Saturday and some Sundays too, though we might have had a roast dinner in a pub....

I have photos of me at soft play.

I was never hit by my parents or teachers.

A party for my kids is a few (never 10) friends and cake.

They rarely watch tv.

But how many children can play outside, away from adult supervision, nowadays?

I'm a child of the fifties and don't live in the UK now, but it does seem like fear of stranger danger and traffic have severely limited most children's freedom nowadays.

I do agree that hospitals allowing parents to accompany their children is a MAJOR improvement, but I doubt much else has improved for children.

I think I know what you're saying and to some extent I agree with you; but I think a lot of the problems with the situation now are down to a subset of people who think their children's needs outweigh everyone elses'. And in fact, that attitude has been around for quite some time, it's not new! While most children were being disciplined back in the 1970s (I know we were!), there was still a school of progressive thought then (and before) that children should be treated as equal individuals and not repressed.

I think there are more people around now who believe their children are more important than anything else and spoil them, don't teach them manners or good behaviour; but there are still people who believe in "old fashioned values" if you like, we just find different ways of instilling them into our children.

I do value my children's rights possibly more than my parents did - I don't do the "children should be seen and not heard" thing, and I don't believe that other adults have more rights than my children just because they're adults. It's good manners to treat children as humans, not as objects, and that should apply to everyone, not just their parents.

I agree with everything thecatfromjapan says.

Many children in the 1970s had wonderful childhoods, but many had utterly shit ones - youth crime was higher, violence against children was more acceptable, disposable income was lower, accident rates were higher. I remember how virulently opposed many people were to seatbelt laws, no smoking areas, the banning of corporal punishment in schools - all of these were considered dangerous authoritarian interfering with personal liberties.

My childhood was 'benign neglect' personified but in fact it just made me feel unsupported and disregarded. Also my DGPs and my DParents generation have really bad basic manners and social skills - a lot of working class people of that generation do, because they weren't given the opportunity to learn - jobs were manual and social contact was provided for by family or the very small town in which they lived and never moved from.

I would trade all my long afternoons riding bikes down country lanes as a 7 year old (nearly getting killed by lorries, chased by teenage boys, followed by strange men) for my DS's childhood.

This is going to vary on so many factors as the Uk is a big place. My dcs life is like mexicanspringtime and dd who is 6 has all the freedom she wants and thats how it should be to me.

The seventies get a terrible press but I was a teenager and had the time of my life. In many parts of the country the sixties didn't happen till the seventies if you see what I mean so it was a very exciting, liberating time. Of course some things are much better now but I know I had a lot more freedom when I was growing up than children have today and I value that.

Well yeah but no.

It's true that some kids these days seem to be terribly cosseted - lavish parties, expensive clothes, all the rest of it. But - is it just me? - I notice far more parents getting angry with these kids these days, shouting at them in public for minor misdemeanours, or yammering away on their mobiles and ignoring their children altogether. Other adults (ie non parents) seem to be less tolerant of children and talk about them in disparaging terms such as "spoilt brats".

And children have so much less freedom than we did - they're either in front of the tv or their electronic devices, or being shunted off to violin lessons and Kumon maths, instead of just getting home and playing in the street for three hours.

I do agree that hospitals allowing parents to accompany their children is a MAJOR improvement, but I doubt much else has improved for children.

Yes i'm sure my children would really prefer to be whacked with a cane by their teachers, sit in pubs for hours on end waiting for me to finish another pint, not be believed when the parish priest sexually abused them.

all three of mine have been outside for most of today - unsupervised, with a big gang of mates. They are 11,10 and 6

What is so great about playing in the street?

3 kids from my school never reached adulthood because they played in the street.

Was on a packed tube the other day. Woman with 6ish year old child got on. Man very kindly got up and offered seat to woman. Woman installed 6 year old in seat. Man asked woman if she wouldn't rather sit down too? Woman said 'oh no, I'm fine, it's just her I'm worried about.'

My eyes rolled so hard they went all the way round.

If I was her I'd've jumped into the seat delightedly and DD would have just had to sit on my lap.

I was born in 1970 btw - I remember being cold, badly dressed, in the dark and doing lots of 'walking' (it was free)

I have no nostalgia for the era - it was beige and we were very poor

Hallowed why didyour eyes roll? surely she knows better than you (a stranger) whether she or her daughter is more in need of a seat? Woman gives her child a seat! Why that got an eye roll is beyond me. I think some people look for things to tut about.