Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be worried about seeing consultant about elective c section tomorrow?

113 replies

heraldgerald · 12/08/2014 11:13

I'm so nervous I actually feel sick. I had a three day Labour last time as I failed to dilate and spent two days at home labouring because I wasn't 4 cm. I never got to bloody 4 cm even with the syntocin! It was a horrendous experience and I've had trauma treatment on the nhs since as a result. I was shattered afterwards and got very ill with an infection.

I have thought long and hard and I cannot face going through that again.

Anyway. I have been told by my midwife I'll have to 'argue my case strongly' about getting one.

I have no idea how strongly I'll need to argue - I don't want to break down in tears and I'm scared I will.

It's triggering even now issues with body control and fears of invasive procedures like sweeps. Aibu to be so wound up?

OP posts:
Furzella · 12/08/2014 11:58

Gah, keep writing then losing the post which means it's bound to turn up and I look like a muppet. My experience was pretty much identical to backwardpossum and was really great (as was the section itself). My GP had advised I chose Chelsea & Westminster in London rather than St George's as her experience was they were more open to c-sections. I was scared witless about the consultant meeting but it was all fine. Good luck.

heraldgerald · 12/08/2014 12:02

Thanks furze

OP posts:
Booboostoo · 12/08/2014 12:11

If you can read up on the possible risks of a CS to show that you have understood the risks and benefits of all options. A good doctor should be concerned with making sure you are making an informed decision, not forcing one or another option on you.

heraldgerald · 12/08/2014 12:13

Good point I will

Bliney it's like a viva!!

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 12/08/2014 12:55

Actually you don't have a right to an ELCS. Its a common misconception, but an important one to understand. You can not just go and demand a CS and be guaranteed to get one.

However, you do have the right to the most appropriate care for your personal circumstances - and this may well include having an ELCS.

The subject is rather conversational on the whole, and there are still many within the profession who are opposed to ELCS on certain grounds. You may well face opposition and be told that you 'have no chance' of being granted one. I do believe that a lot of this attitude is about putting off as many women as possible before they explore this avenue fully.

The good news is that the NICE guidelines are favourable to women who are extremely anxious over having a VB. They backup the idea that mental health reasons for an ELCS are as valid as physical reasons for an ELCS.

They outline a process for women in your situation, which has been interpreted in a variety of ways, but in essence the idea is that you should be offered counselling and the opportunity to discuss your fears, but if after this, you are still not happy with the idea of a VB, you should be granted a CS. If the consultant you are seeing doesn't want to do this, they should refer you to someone who will. The underlying principle is that diagnosis of women who really need an ELCS on mental health grounds is an incredibly subjective thing, and in the pass this led to some women being actively forced to have a VB. The NICE guidelines felt this was extremely unacceptable, because they felt that denying a woman access to an ELCS could in fact be even more damaging to a woman's mental health, so on balance decided that it was better to support women wanting one.

The bad news is no one is obliged to follow the NICE guidelines; they are only guidelines. This has lead to very little consistency within the NHS about understanding and support for the issue unfortunately. Some Trusts are incredibly proactive and supportive. Others are not. There are even a couple who have imposed 'blanket bans' on maternal requests, and extend this to women in your situation. Fortunately they are small in number. And from all the threads I've seen on the subject on MN I've only seen a couple who have ultimately been denied if you are prepared to fight and understand it can be a stressful process.

Having said all that, there is something of a movement of encouraging women in your situation to have an ELCS for trauma, and actually this might not actually be the right thing in your personal circumstances. I think this is important to stress, and perhaps encourage you not go in all guns blazing, but to listen to them as much as they listen to you.

I am very fortunate in that the hospital I have been attending, is supportive of ELCS for mental health, but understand that actually, what the best option is, is to build a relationship with a woman, and fully understand the individual elements of her fear. They have a lot of woman who ask for an ELCS who after being given alternatives that are acceptable to them, and being put in a position where they feel in control, actually do change their minds without pressure to do so. But they are also fully supportive if you still want to have an ELCS.

This is why I say that it is important to fully explore your previous birth experience and to discuss how you feel, as ultimately, most women who ask for an ELCS tend to be united by one thing; they need extra support and reassurance regardless of how they ultimately give birth. ELCS are not the only solution to this problem - they are just one option. There is NO RIGHT ANSWER to this issue. Only the right answer for YOU.

As for crying in your consultant appointment... really don't worry about it! If anything, it shows how much this is affecting your mental state. It won't count against you. I would however, encourage you to take someone with you who can help support you and put forward your case and I would recommend you writing as much as you can down before you go to the appointment so you can better articulate how you are feeling and not forget an important point, in case you do go to pieces.

You may be surprised, and despite what your midwife has said, find the process fairly easy. This was my experience (though my circumstances are somewhat different). I was booked in for an ELCS at 16 weeks. You may also find it a real battle and struggle to get an agreement until 36 weeks. I wish I could offer you a better guide as to how it is likely to go, but as I say, there is considerable inconsistency of care throughout the NHS (Despite the NICE guidelines which were intended to stop this, but instead have actually made the situation worse).

Good luck. I hope that you ultimately feel comfortable with your plans for your birth, whether that be an ELCS or a VB.

RedToothBrush · 12/08/2014 12:57

alwaysdoinglaundry Tue 12-Aug-14 11:32:35
I won't block things but why should I help someone who is arsey from the start?

Because being 'arsey' could be a symptom of extreme anxiety or fear...

You know a medical condition...

HTH.

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 13:01

I agree with all you say Red, however the op must be resonsible for doing her own research on whether elc is right for her, I just dont belive many consultants are truely listening to the women they see and acting on that information I think too many have personal preference and hospital stats in their minds.

Justfivemoreminutesplease · 12/08/2014 13:03

Ditto some of the comments above - I went in to see my Consultant ready to have a bit of a bun fight but she couldn't have been nicer - we had a chat re the pros & cons and then she just said something along the lines of "right well you know what you want so I'll get my diary". The biggest debate was then all over what day to have my CS on (it was the week before Christmas).

I came out almost in shock as I was so ready for a battle, but it never materialised. I just think you stick to your guns & your decision - you'll be fine.

heraldgerald · 12/08/2014 13:10

Redtoothbrush, thank you for your extremely thoughtful post. There are a number of nuances to the argument that I had not considered. I will take your advice. I would gladly consider more therapy to help with this- I'm clearly still very affectedd althoigh less ptsd symptoms thanks to edmr which has been very effective.

OP posts:
heraldgerald · 12/08/2014 13:11

Thanks just five- glad to hear it went well and hopefully mine will too.

OP posts:
foolishpeach · 12/08/2014 13:11

I won't block things but why should I help someone who is arsey from the start?

Because your job is to help people no matter who they are, not make subjective judgements about who is "deserving" of your help and who isn't.

HTH

foolishpeach · 12/08/2014 13:12

Oh, and good luck OP!

MrsWinnibago · 12/08/2014 13:15

Bloody well said Peach I really didn't like what that GP poster was insinuating! That she is lord almighty and if your attitude does not pass muster, then your treatment won't either! Shock

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 13:36
  • they need extra support and reassurance regardless of how they ultimately give birth. ELCS are not the only solution to this problem - they are just one option. There is NO RIGHT ANSWER to this issue. Only the right answer for YOU

We looked into different options but at the end of the day I knew no one could guarantee me a great second labour, so I went with ELC and it was fabulous.

RedToothBrush · 12/08/2014 13:38

Herald, from my point of view I was very dubious and afraid of being 'persuaded'. My personal experience so far has been great, and I can really understand why simply getting support and having a more complex/tailored birth plan for a VB could really be the solution for a lot of women. They have taken my fears seriously, and have been incredible in supporting me as an individual rather than simply 'just another' woman having a baby.

From the sound of it, you seem to have a few elements of your fear at the moment. You have mentioned the length of your labour, feeling out of control and issues over invasive procedures as well as the fear of an infection. These are all separate issues, that could be discussed and potentially ways found to deal with/help you cope with. (You should also be aware that an ELCS still may involve invasive procedures too)

Another key thing worth you baring in mind, is that the risks for women who have had one child, are different to first time mothers. If you have successfully had a VB then the physical risks for both you and your baby are less if you plan a VB than if you plan an ELCS. Thats not saying you should have a VB - on balance, if you take into account your mental health as well as your physical health, it may be less risky for you to have an ELCS.

Equally, you should also give due thought as to how many more children you may want after this one. If you are planning more, then the risks increase with each CS.

Remember you can push and have an ELCS agreed in principle, but you are always free to change your mind, so you don't have to make an ultimate decision immediately.

I think the biggest thing of all to realise is that you are suffering from anxiety over the issue, which is affecting how you are feeling about the pregnancy and the birth. You need support to deal with this, no matter which way you go - as this is your key problem. Wanting an ELCS is a symptom/sign of how you are feeling.

Cakebaker35 · 12/08/2014 13:46

I think the gp was just trying to say that some people leave their manners at the door, especially those that love the 'I know my rights' line, and there really is no need to start a conversation with an attitude. Having worked in a profession where I've also had those sorts of people to deal with, we are only human and when faced with someone aggressive and not willing to listen, it's not easy to feel particularly accommodating, although professionalism does of course take over. As redtoothbrush said very eloquently it's not actually a right, and approaching it with attitude isn't helpful to anyone. So many times when I've heard 'I know my rights' it's meant the person in question does not. I think redtoothbrush covered all the points really well in her post, it's about a relationship and a discussion which can be ongoing. It's just a shame that nhs trusts vary so widely in the care they provide.

Anomaly · 12/08/2014 13:55

Don't build it up into something that it may not be. At 12 weeks I was thinking I would like an elective by 20 week appointment I knew I did. Consultant left it up to me no drama, no pressure either way. The only bit he was firm about was that if I had another it would definitely be a section which I was fine about.

littlepeas · 12/08/2014 14:10

I think it's mostly been said - but I went in well researched and was very firm and clear about my preference and the reasons why. I had had a very long drawn out labour, much like yours, which ended in a crash section and I fell pregnant again very soon afterwards (13 month age gap) and couldn't face it. I may have been more open to it had I had a bigger gap. I was adamant that it should be my choice and made it clear I would not be bullied into vbac. It was agreed, although they did tell me it was my last chance for a vaginal delivery and was I sure - I was. I considered vba2c as well and was supported with that too, although the decision was taken out if my hands as dc3 was breach. For me, the most important thing was that it was my choice - if you find yourself with a consultant who doesn't respect your wishes then ask to see another.

littlepeas · 12/08/2014 14:12

I mean breech! I always spell it wrong and realise afterwards !

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 14:18

Sadly Cake until women can get treated properly and have proper maternity care in this country, Ie not scared to death of dirty wards, being abandoned in labour, denied epidurals when asked for one, being written off immediately by bad tempered consultants who wont listen to them...

some women may be a little bit huffy when going to appointments.

As I said before the professional would do better to ask what the cause of the stress is, and put them at ease.

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 14:19

Having worked in a profession where I've also had those sorts of people to deal with, we are only human and when faced with someone aggressive and not willing to listen, it's not easy to feel particularly accommodating

I have worked in care and some patients were aggressive, but they were my customers and this was the job I was paid to do. No room for being childish and getting aggressive back.

MrsWinnibago · 12/08/2014 14:19

My telling someone to stick to their guns and know their rights is not being arsey, huffy or lacking in manners.

I wonder when men will be accused so blithely of those things when THEY know what they want and go out to get it!?

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 14:23

agree mrs W.

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 14:23

more woemn need to be armed with their rights, and ways of getting through this maze...

BornFreeButinChains · 12/08/2014 14:28

sorry Harold, will get off your thread now, but good luck!