to wonder how the families of victims of serious crimes cope in Court when they have to sit shoulder to shoulder

[Cornflakesnmilk]

with the accused friends/family?

I've recently attended the Old Bailey and simply can't understand how it is that the victims Mother/Father, siblings etc have to sit with the accused families? In some case, when the public Gallery is packed, it is literally shoulder to shoulder.

I totally appreciate that the accused are simply that, they are not guilty until the Jury return a verdict but when, for example you're presented with CCTV footage of a murder, it must be very hard not to draw conclusions - as a family member I can only imagine that you would not want to be sitting anywhere near to the anyone relating to what happened to your loved one? It must simply be so painful.

I've heard people goading others, chatting between themselves, making comments about the evidence etc. Surely the victims family are going through enough?

Should there not be some kind of separation between the different parties - not segregation but simply a aisle between the seating areas for example?.

I don't quite know why I'm posting but I'm genuinely shocked at what I've witnessed.

Sorry - I have just realised that I have hijacked the thread somewhat.
It has stirred up some pretty awful memories.
Sorry OP.

I sympathise, but the families of the accused are also victims - having a family member commit a serious crime can have a devastating effect on them too. It's not them who've committed or ate accused of committing a crime.

I can see that McFox but for me it felt as if my ex's family supporting him whilst looking at me like I was the one who'd committed the crimes, felt dreadful and like a slap in the face. I know it can't have been fun for them to see their son, brother, friend etc sent down, but what he did was disgraceful and low and he bloody well deserved a lot longer sentence than he got. They may well have felt hurt, ashamed, let down etc, but all I could see were their sneery, horrible faces.

Gosh 3 please don't apologise, it's all just v sad.

McFox I agree and commented earlier. I suppose my OP came from a specific experience v recently which concerned the victims family. However, I also recognise that the accused family are also victims and apparently have little support.

Melted they sound like a nasty bunch and maybe they don't believe your ex to be guilty. I can imagine that would have been awful for you.

I can only tell it from my side as someone with a close family member in jail for doing something terrible. It's ruined the lives of the rest of the hard working, respectable and law abiding family - friends have walked away, there have been threats, violence etc, relationships have broken down etc - and we've done nothing wrong. It's hard to be in that position too because you don't stop loving someone because they made a terrible stupid mistake.

I understand that there may be cases where the family will be blind to the accused's behaviour and will be intimidating and difficult to be around. But for every family like that there's one like mine.

McFox I am sorry. I must admit that what you've said was echoed by the family members who spoke to me ie the cousin of a man (boy!) found guilty of murder said v similar things. I'm sorry for you and your family.

I have been in court in support of the accused. Luckily the waiting area was big enough for both parties to stay opposite ends. When inside the courtroom I was allowed to sit in the reporters area (although this may be because the victim and her family/friends took up all the seats in the public gallery).
As PPs have said, it's pretty horrible being on that side of things too. Not something I ever want to repeat.

X-post Cornflake.

The support for families is really poor and sometimes it seems as if the families continue to be punished for something they didn't do - for example, in the past family visits have been withheld as a punishment which hurts the prisoner's children as much as the prisoner themselves. In my family's case this means children under the age of 10 not seeing their parent for weeks on end. It's certainly not easy whatever 'side' you're on.

No, you're right. Everyone suffers.

I read somewhere that when someone is murdered (for example) over 300 people on average are affected. Until I had been to Court, I simply hadn't every really considered or witnessed the impact on 'everyone', victim and guilty party' family and how wide the net really spread. I am genuinely shocked at what I've witnessed. It's incredibly sad.

*ever

I agree OP.

It is sad and because families are often seen as somehow complicit, getting support or funding to help them is really difficult. The sympathy just isn't there.

One of my family is now heavily involved in family support because we found it so lacking. They recently set up a fundraising box in a supermarket which clearly stated that donations would be used to support the children of prisoners. There was a similar animal charity box alongside it. At the end of the month there was over £500 in the animal box and the family support one hadn't even reached £100. Says it all really.

This waiting area stuff is ridiculous. We had a suite with a kitchen in and sofas and we waited there whilst the case was going on. Then ten minutes before I was due to give evidence, put into a holding room. Then escorted via back door to the witness box in the court. Same happened for all witnesses.

Must have been awful for people who didn't have the same I had. We were there for hours and hours each day so I would not have coped with having to be in the same room as the defending people.

That's sad McFox.

Morphine I can only speak about my limited experiences but in terms of the Old Bailey, many of the family members wait on the stair cases with everyone else. There is a v small corridor outside the Court rooms and on occasion I've seen the immediate family be allowed to wait there but it's only feet away from everyone else (through one glass door).

Clearly (thankfully) not all Courts are like that.

Wow. That's dreadful. How is anyone expected to give evidence in those sorts of circumstances?! They would have had to drag me kicking and screaming

The other problem is that despite many polite Notices advising people not to discuss cases whilst waiting (on the staircase), invariably people do - it's not right but it's human nature I think. It's v strange (sad) because the victims and accused families are all there making comments/shouting/crying/praying etc.

With the greatest will in the world melted, and I honestly don't mean this flippantly, even in an ideal world what can be done about that?

The accused a family (guilty or not) are going to have animosity to the person who has outed their close party.
It's akin to having someone turn on you because you reveal their wife/husband is having an affair.
It's illogical and unfair but inevitable.

And similarly with court cases, everyone has a right to attend but nobody can police how the attendees feel.

3 - that sounds awful - so glad your DS has been able to move on, although no doubt the experience has marked you all.

DD and I were in a space of around 1,000 sq. feet outside two of the large Courts in a major city. Having been escorted up there by Witness Support, we were left for around 15 minutes until she was called into Court. It was there that the now convicted criminals friends' came and joined us. It was enough to make someone crumble, although as I said upthread, it actually gave DD strength.

I learned that once you have given a statement, you have to go to Court if required. One witness was threatened with arrest when he was in the middle of his university finals. DD says she will never make a statement to the Police again. but understandable.

I have experience of this.

In Dec 2012 my brother was murdered, he was stabbed 54 times & his body left in the mans bedsit for a week before my brother was found.

The trial was at the old bailey in Sept last year.
The police would only allow 3 family members to be with them in a special area which isn't in the general seating area in the court.
Because of this 1 brother & his wife had to sit with the mans family in the gallery as well as some other family members.
Although i wasn't seated near his family through out the trial, where i was seated meant i was actually right next to the man who murdered my brother.
It was a little awkward when i got to the tube station (on my own) and didn't realise until i was on the tube that i was right next to his mum, sisters & a female friend.
I didn't get off the train, i didn't see why i should.
We entered the building with our police officer & were taken to a different floor which had 2 rooms with sofas and small side rooms where we could talk in private, it also had a small kitchen. Its where people giving evidence and immediate family members were allowed to be.
I felt bad that our brother and other family members were sat so close to his family.
When the jury read out the verdict of guilty his sister stood up and started shouting something about he didn't mean it etc etc.... she was then escorted out.
I didn't react or say anything back, neither did any of my family.
I was grateful that i was seated away from his family & friends as i would have found sitting with them very upsetting.

MQv2 I take your point. McFox I take yours too. Although my ex's family gave the impression that their son/brother was the wronged party and was totally blame free etc, that absolutely doesn't apply to all families in such a situation. The disparity between the amounts in the charity boxes really does say a hell of a lot about this. It's as if you are guilty by association.

It's so sad that so many on here have suffered so much and have been so let down.

Serendipity that's terrible, I'm sorry for your loss. The court experience must have been really difficult for you all.

MQ, I don't believe that such an attitude from the accused's family is inevitable. We certainly didn't feel that way. We were shocked, upset and resigned, but we didn't feel any animosity towards the victim's family. Our anger was reserved for our family member who had so casually thrown a grenade into all our lives. Maybe that's why some families act in an aggressive manner. Denied the chance to really show their anger towards the accused (because the last thing you want to do on a jail visit is to argue) and court is possibly the first time that they really get to hear the detail of the case. It's so stressful and you feel terribly ashamed. For some people displaying anger may be their way of coping, and isn't necessarily directed towards the victim and their family or witnesses, it may be misdirected anger towards the accused.

That's awful serendipity, I'm really sorry. :( I agree that they should be separated somehow.

Luckily I've never had to go to court as a victim or as a victim's family member, I can't imagine how distressing that must be. I'm on the other side and I actually blamed myself at first, I thought maybe if I'd supported them more they wouldn't have done it etc. Then I felt extremely guilty. I wouldn't wish that pain and confusion on anybody.

I agree with you McFox, I'm sure there are some horrid families out there who don't care about the victims but equally I think some are acting out of anger. I can't even begin to describe how angry I feel at my situation. I don't know if I'm going to go to court or not. It wouldn't be to support them but the others so I don't think family members always go out of support for their relative but more to support each other if that makes sense. I also want to see them being punished and because this person is both a victim and a perpetrator I'm curious as to what the judge is going to say and what kind of sentence they will give. Part of me wants to hear exactly what they've done and I'm sure that's why some families go, to hear the full details. I want closure as well but I think I will find it too upsetting and I don't want people thinking I'm going to support them. I don't want any associations with the case so I'm thinking I won't go but I can understand why others do.

Serendipity I'm so so sorry for your loss. I recall reading about your poor brother. I cannot imagine what on earth you and your family went through, I'm so sorry.

serendipity I am so so sorry for what happened to your brother and your family.

Serendipity - I am so, so sorry for your loss.
There are some evil people around.