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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to wonder how the families of victims of serious crimes cope in Court when they have to sit shoulder to shoulder

75 replies

Cornflakesnmilk · 08/08/2014 17:51

with the accused friends/family?

I've recently attended the Old Bailey and simply can't understand how it is that the victims Mother/Father, siblings etc have to sit with the accused families? In some case, when the public Gallery is packed, it is literally shoulder to shoulder.

I totally appreciate that the accused are simply that, they are not guilty until the Jury return a verdict but when, for example you're presented with CCTV footage of a murder, it must be very hard not to draw conclusions - as a family member I can only imagine that you would not want to be sitting anywhere near to the anyone relating to what happened to your loved one? It must simply be so painful.

I've heard people goading others, chatting between themselves, making comments about the evidence etc. Surely the victims family are going through enough?

Should there not be some kind of separation between the different parties - not segregation but simply a aisle between the seating areas for example?.

I don't quite know why I'm posting but I'm genuinely shocked at what I've witnessed.

OP posts:

Original poster

Cornflakesnmilk · 08/08/2014 20:22

That's true Pitt - regardless of what the Jury says, it's your child and I guess you simply can't imagine the person you know actually committing the crime - don't know?

OP posts:

Original poster

Cornflakesnmilk · 08/08/2014 20:24

aj your DD sounds v strong. I doubt I could've coped in the same way at 21.

OP posts:

PittTheYounger · 08/08/2014 20:24

People often worry about being seen in town/out and about after being in court but tbh people are often highly stressed or anxious in court and cannot remember anyone after the event, not least an address, which they can get from google if they were really bothered.

ajandjjmum · 08/08/2014 20:26

I was very proud of her Cornflake.

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 21:11

Ds was just 18 when he was the victim of a horrific armed robbery.
He went to court on his own because he was afraid that if we went to support him we would be at risk of reprisals if the "family" recognised us in future. Of course they would know our address...

Victim support and police were utterly useless.

meltedmonterayjack · 08/08/2014 21:38

I do agree you don't have to go to the sentencing and I could have waited for someone to tell me the verdict. But I felt a real need to hear/see for myself, the judge telling my ex that what he had done was despicable and to hopefully see him get sent down. Even though his prison sentence was a total joke, it still gave me some deep satisfaction just to know he would have to serve time. Although to this day I don't think he can believe he did anything really wrong and can justify everything he did?! I do understand his mother, brother etc supporting him, but they looked at me like I was the one who'd committed the bloody crimes, not him! And I'd done nothing except marry someone who turned out to be a total turd.

Original poster

Cornflakesnmilk · 08/08/2014 21:44

Gosh 3 how awful.

Melt I can understand why you wanted to go to Court. People can be quite odd ie his family appearing to blame you.

OP posts:

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 21:51

Cornflakes it went to the crown court because it was so serious.
My faith in the police and the justice system was completely shattered by that experience.
It was reported - inaccurately, by the local press. The worst thing was reading the comments that described DS as a wimp and pathetic for not defending himself. The story in the press didn't mention the weapons or the names of the assailants. Apparently it was amusing that the amount of money involved was small. The fact that he was lucky to escape with his life was obviously not so newsworthy.

Original poster

Cornflakesnmilk · 08/08/2014 21:58

Good god, how is your DS now 3?

OP posts:

MorphineDreams · 08/08/2014 22:02

Not only do the families have to sit in close proximity, the victim often has to wait in the same area as the accused before going in to court

Really?

When I was the 'victim' I was kept completely separate from the accused. Had to use different exits, they had to time our comings and goings in case we were to encounter one another.

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 22:04

He was so brave. It was very humbling.
He is fine - he was determined not to let it ruin his life.
It was a very bad time and I lived in fear for a long time.
We got a letter to tell us when one of the people was due to be released from prison. It brought it all back again, but luckily nothing happened.
I was very jumpy - every time a saw a car parked outside that I didn't recognise for example.

Ds went to university in another part of the country so I felt that he was safe. I was fearful for my other DC though for a long time.

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 22:05

You were fortunate MorphineDreams.
I hope the trial wasn't too dreadful.
I wouldn't wish a serious court case on anybody.

MorphineDreams · 08/08/2014 22:06

Wow my experience of crown court seems to be much better than people's on here - you've been treated terribly.

There were completely separate floors on different ends of the building, one for victim/complainant and the witness for the pros and the other for the defendant and witnesses for the defence. Families were allowed to come with us, and we were escorted everywhere if we felt unable to go on our own. We had a 'secret' exit and entry at the back of the building.

When it was my turn to give evidence I was collected, locked in a room then escorted to the court when it was radioed through that they had all been seated - so at no point was I ever at risk of seeing someone on my own.

MorphineDreams · 08/08/2014 22:08

Really sorry about your experience 3little it sounds terrible.

Mine was a fail, the defendant got away with it because I fought back too much apparently. The prosecution twisted everything, making it out that I set it all up so it put doubt in the juries minds. I was so angry.

This is after sitting there for 5 days on the trot 9-5 waiting to even go into court because our court kept getting taken by other cases. I was a nervous wreck.

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 22:34

You fought back too much??? Good grief. It really is bizarre isn't it?

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 22:37

A witness in DS's case was threatened by "the family". He was told his parents and younger sibling would be tortured and killed.
He was arrested for contempt of court when he collapsed at the trial. Madness.

MorphineDreams · 08/08/2014 22:38

Yes 3little it's terrible :(

apparently despite me having records of threats and the like, video evidence, I fought back too much and defence said 'I'm not sure why you brought this to court since you did a good job back yourself'. I ended up hospilised fgs. The person had nothing wrong with them and actually congratulated themselves on social networking about what they'd done.

when someone has threatened you for months, and finally gets you on there own and is hurting you - you do whatever you can to get them off you. :( I no longer trust the justice system. I went through 2 years (it took 2 years to get to court) of worrying about it for what.. that.

MorphineDreams · 08/08/2014 22:40

You're joking. That's terrible. It makes me so sad. The poor person. I really hope your DS is okay too.

I can honestly say it takes a lot of strength to go to court. I was shitting a brick and I knew I had done nothing wrong! But after the questioning, I almost felt like I had. Just the way they twist your every word. I ended up crying. And I couldn't thank my witnesses enough - lovely people.

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 22:45

As far as I remember DS didn't have a choice. The police had been trying to get these particular people for years.
Unfortunately it was the sheer incompetence of the police that lost the case against all but one of the accused.
Ds was treated like a criminal by the police, even though he had done nothing wrong. They wouldn't let him phone me to let me know where he was. (His own phone had been stolen).
They finally let him out of the police station after midnight to make his own way home with no money. Bastards.

MorphineDreams · 08/08/2014 22:50

I didn't have a choice either, in the end I just wanted to drop the whole thing.

That's ridiculous. I honestly cannot believe that the utter bastards.

I felt let down by my side to be honest. It's like the defendant was given so much time to prepare, got to see the video, got time to make stories up. The first time I saw the video was in court. I couldn't remember hardly anything because I had concussion after a head injury sustained so I just looked like I was lying when I had to say 'i dont know, I don't remember'. I would have liked to have spoken to the prosecution barrister beforehand too, that never happened and apparently it isn't protocol either.

One thing I cannot fault is the charity that looked after us whilst at court, I made a considerable donation because those women made all the difference to my experience.

MorphineDreams · 08/08/2014 22:50

Sorry if I've missed this, was the outcome what you hoped for?

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 22:54

No - not at all. They should all have gone to prison. Only one went down and he didn't have a weapon so he got 5 years.
The police lost all the evidence.

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 22:56

Actually - the family are responsible for most of the crime in a particular area. I do have my suspicions about the way it was handled, but I couldn't possibly prove anything.

MorphineDreams · 08/08/2014 22:58

It's just shocking. Looks like you and your son got let down from all sides. Witness and victim support is a joke too.

The hospital let me down too, lost my hospital records. So my broken cheekbone never happened

3littlefrogs · 08/08/2014 23:03

It has changed me. I have no faith in the police or the justice system any more.
I have experience of lost and missing medical records too. It makes you very cynical.

Sorry about your injuries morphine. Thank goodness it wasn't worse.

I hang on to the fact that DS is alive. It could have been very different.

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