to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

[LEMmingaround]

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

Okay then let's all have smiley faces that our country is run by an Establishment of sex abusers and sex abuse apologists.

At least the people of Scotland have the opportunity to get the fuck away from that disgrace to humanity.

The yes campaign itself hasn't used this in the campaign (that I know of), but thousands of yes voters think it.

They are also the council who agreed school closures on the same day as they approved the building of social housing in the same area, when data was already available showing an increase in births. We now have school playgrounds being built over so that our children can be taught in 'modules' (we are not allowed to call them prefabs). We were told about these in a meeting that used the same birth rate figures that had been ignored by the council during the school closure protests, and the fact that they had just closed schools in the areas now needing these modules was repeatedly side-stepped.

Sex abuse scandals have happened (and are probably happening still) in Scotland. They are not and were not unique to England and Westminster and to insinuate that is grossly unfair and disrespectful to the victims.

Very sensible. I was commenting on the premise of the article, not whether we should shirk our responsibilities. I'd be ashamed to be part of a Scotland who thought that was an appropriate way to behave.

I'm fairly sure the markets wouldn't be entirely amused either.

There's no point trying to convince ItsAll that no debt is bad. I've tried.

Sex abuse scandals are not unique to England FFS. They happen here too. Oh, and Westminster has plenty of Scottish politicians and has done for many years. Why would scottish politicians based in Scotland be any different to scottish politicians based in the UK?

Edinburgh council is a bloody disgrace. They tried to close our local school - it's now overflowing and having to be extended.

So there's been no sexual abuse in Scottish institutions? None of the Scottish political figures in Westminster at the time (some now in Holyrood) knew anything was happening? Or are we back to natural moral superiority?

Not unique to Westminister, no, but endemic, for decades, and covered up at all levels, if current reporting is to be believed. I believe the victims.

Statistically I wonder if we are near each other? The growth of prefab buildings in playgrounds is shocking. The expense is horrendous, and yet they refuse to admit they got the estate management so drastically wrong.

We have no additional ancillary space despite our new classrooms. Heaven knows where the children are supposed to have lunch, do gym etc.

I've heard that the related scandals in Edinburgh, and those persons involved, is so big that it would be a scandal of such enormous and shocking proportions, its almost too big to let it come to light.

Another way of saying that is that there is no political will to do so.

There are a lot of supposed left wing people in Edinburgh campaigning for a fairer and better society sitting back and letting others profit from incompetence, mismanagement and deliberate cover ups.

I believe the victims too. I just don't believe that it's remotely relevant to the independence debate as I fail to see how Scottish MPs are any "better" than English/Welsh/NI MPs. This has been institutionalized within an organisation that Scots were part of.

You think I don't believe the victims?!

I want to see this investigation get into every single nook and cranny and I want every evil scumbag revealed.

I don't think it has any connection to the referendum and I really think you are being totally out of line with that argument.

Edinburgh's small, we can't be very far apart! Our school is listed so they can't extend the school so are squeezing more classes in to an annexe. Which means the after school club is shrinking. Our other local schools are full to bursting too. It's a disgrace, and because we're in the centre there's no space to build new schools really. The old ones have long since been converted to flats.

It's the chance to have a new Establishment with a different, no tolerance approach to these things. Something not demonstrated thus far by Westminster.

The original point that she made was that westminster is rotten. Regardless of the nationalities of the MPs, the lies from that government are horrific.

The list on the last page of 'scandals' are bad, poorly managed, but I don't think are comparable to the cover ups of Iraq WMDs, rich paedophiles, expenses etc. What else might they be lying about?

And where exactly has the government of an independent Scotland laid out its approach to sex abuse?

Or is it this intrinsic Scottish niceness and fairness again?

That's crap Fork the Scottish establishment in any independent Scotland will be exactly the same people as it is now.

Do you think the current landowners, lawyers, judges, politicians etc in Scotland will change on independence. If you do you're being very naive.

Why is no debt bad?

It wouldn't be a default as is UKs debt so no bad reputation there
. We'd be saving a vast amount of money on debt repayments, and have an asset rich country. What's not to like?

It's not crap. It's a chance for a fresh start with new rules.

If I were rUK I'd want independence from Westminster too. The difference is, Scotland has the opportunity.

But why would Scotland be any better? The majority of the scandals have taken years to come out - the Scottish Parliament is still relatively young. I have no doubt that there will be scandals from there too as time passes.

Are the people any different? No. If we'd become independent say 30 years ago then Tony, Gordon and Alistair would probably have been running Scotland instead of the UK. It's not like we didn't vote for them!

One of the two openly named with regards to the sex scandal is scottish. Salmond's already been caught up lying about expenses and trying to avoid releasing information. Politicians stink the world over - their shit doesn't smell like roses just because it's Scottish shit.

What new rules?

Your legal system is already separate and will not change.

Your church is already separate and will not change.

Your education system, health service etc are separate.

Do you think Alex Salmond will step down and encourage an idealistic 25 year old pol/sci grad to step into his shoes.

It wouldn't necessarily be better. But at least we could vote them out.

It'd be heather surely Statistically

I'm not sure rules was meant in a strict legal sense - more things like no foodbanks should be needed in a rich country, that sort of thing.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/a1995570-So-no-share-of-national-debt-for-an-independent-Scotland-then#45060471

Your own thread, itsall, where you were repeatedly told why it's a bad thing.