to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

[LEMmingaround]

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

Total arrogance.

Maybe thats why some people are fed up and want independence.

Surmising..I have not made mind up yet and wouldn't generalise and assume all English people are rude and arrogant just because one is.

because i am exceptionally grumpy today and have a pounding headache. I am a naturally terse and rude person!

Well go and have a painkiller.

And yes I agree

Dolphins I've got a flat that could be up for sale if you want to see the results close up?

odd I don't like whisky, not that keen on haggis, although I do like shortbread. Hope your headache is better soon.

I would say it's check mate to salmon from Cameron

If he try's to join the EU he will have to take on the euro

If he wins the vote their will be no currency union

If he try's to default on the debt to try and force our hand Scotland will be downgraded and the only person who will lend Scotland money will be WONGa

He can't use trident because in 2016 it needs replacing anyway

Oddcommentator please don't be rude. Firstly, there are a huge number of Scottish people who don't want to go. Secondly, a lot of the people on this thread are still gathering information and coming to a conclusion. You obviously know a lot about economics/monetary policy (I know a fair amount myself due to my job/profession) and some of the information you are sharing is valuable as the reality is that many people don't know about it, and a lot of the "information" we are being given isn't exactly realistic.

Please don't let your useful info get lost in nasty stereotyping eh?

I feel very sorry for Scottish adopters as in the eleventh of a yes vote they will be limited to a very small pool of children and the Scottish adoption system is once of the slowest as it is

There are also a huge number of Welsh, Northern Irish and English folk who don't want Scotland to leave either.

Does anyone fancy a unity march?

The other 'ace' that Salmond is obviously using is oil. Ah yes....North Sea Oil. Much of iScotland's fiscal future seems to be dependent on oil prices rising.

Except we all know that oil prices are volatile. And whilst there is oil left in the North sea for quite some time yet, it's slowly running out. Combine that with new ways of getting oil such as fracking & oil sands and it's far from certain to me that oil prices will rise. In fact I think a lot of experts are predicting it will actually fall.

but you see of course -the whole pro-debate is built on one side a wholly specious economic standpoint and the other is built on a romanticised notion, tartan, scotty dogs, wee dram and the heather etc etc.

All of which is fine - but as realistic as the whole of England being a mix of top hat wearing cigar smoking toffs and bull dogs in union jack waistcoats.

And frankly we are all rather tired of the "we never get the government we voted for" stuff. there are hundreds of thousands of tory voters in Scotland. And we then hear Salmond going on about Pandas and so forth and well get a bit fractious and tired of it all.

So if you take offence - I apologise but when you see what is said about the people on the no side by a lot of people - not just here but elsewhere it causes friction.

The pro independence Scots I've seen on FB have linked to articles hinting that a new huge oil field has been found in Scottish waters but it's being hushed up until after the vote. It will be interesting to hear it it is true.

ShakesBooty would be nice to see 'ordinary' people expressing an opinion. Bit fed up of the 'celebrity' thing although it does seem to be the way to get attention for causes these days.

Well.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

As my auld Heilan' granny used to say.

Err no she was from Edinburgh

Yes, hushed up by having the PM visit. He's pretty unobtrusive with his entourage after all.

Not sure how often Shetland get the government they vote for....

Yeah cos as we all know Facebook is a bastion of truthful and impartial information.

Oh but these are links to articles, things with real words printed on the internet, it's there in black and white.

Yeah, I know

The oil will make a difference if its there - but then you have to get it out.

This is done by big companies that make a lot of money. Shell. BP. Exxon etc. They arent domiciled in Scotland but they have big operations. This is why Aberdeen is such a wealthy town.

If you have to start ramping up taxes - they ramp down production. Easy as. They are big enough to leave it a bit, 10 years maybe till conditions are right then they turn the tap on.

My irritation (which often itches to get out) is around the following

1. Somehow Scotland will be a nice place when it has left rUK. More, "fair" more lovely- yet all of the nice things are within the remit of existing government. They haven't delivered it yet - why will that change?
2. the belief that Scotland will become more left wing and therefore nicer - which goes against the history of every socialist state with no opposition - ever.
3. that those who oppose the ill thought out plan are somehow stupid or not patriotic, playing into the hands of the evil English.

However the evidence has show that the Yes campaign hasn't thought through the economics beyond - it will be ok - we promise.

However - and i say this of any politician - especially as one as canny as wee eck. Salmond was an economist - so he either he has forgotten everything he ever learnt about economics when he was the Bank Economist for the RBS or he is deliberately fibbing. One shows that he is an idiot - the other shows he is capable of breathtaking mendacity the likes of which mean he should have old ladies spit on him in the street.

So Salmond knows he has no plan B - he knows the conditions of EU entry, he knows about an OCA and the issues of structural payments and the issues of creating a sterling OCA for scotland. Further - he knows damn well about central banks. So when he says it will be fine - he is again, either stupid or lying.

He is a politician - his lips are moving - ergo he is lying

sorry - OCA - optimum currency area - also known as a currency union between states. The US is the best known OCA, the EU is a flawed one for all the previous reasons of structural payments and the lack of political union.

There are a number of tests for an OCA - Scotland / rUK pass a lot of them bar central bank, lender of last resort, structural payments, and political union.

'If you want to go, there's the door, fuck off' is not the most mature offer for Cameron to put on the table.

That's extremely unfair Gatorade.
Scotland already has its own parliament, and lots of devolved powers - some of which haven't even been used. More devolution is on the way.

But the SNP said "No, we want independence!", and got the referendum it wanted. Scotland now has the ability to decide whether it wants to be independent, yes or no. That's not a 'fuck off' message.

Then Salmond came up with the white paper, a wish list of what he does and doesn't want to take from the UK, and on what terms.

I'm sorry, but independence means you become a foreign country, and you get no favourable treatment. That is sad, but every country has to look after itself.

I've said it above, and I say it again. I very much hope that if Scotland does leave the UK it will survive and become successful. Its people deserve it.

But I also hope and expect that the UK government, whichever party gets in next year, will do what's best for its own citizens - just as Scotland's government will be doing for its own.

1. they have delivered it already to an extent in that free higher education and prescriptions are available in scotland, due to what they have prioritised their spending on. I also think with a devolved NHS we have been protected somewhat from the stealth privatisation of the NHS.
2. we, as a country, vote more left wing, yes we have tory support but nowhere near enough for them to get in power.
3. ok

I think he avoided mentioning plan B as it would have been totally seized upon and ripped apart and quoted as plan A, personally.

oddcommentator
I've heard there is an argument about who will have to pay for decommissioning the North Seas oilfields. Do you know anything about that?

All the free stuff that's happening only happens with the back up of the uk

Their are very few countries that enjoy that tax that the Scott's pay and loads of freebies

The Nordic counties pay crippling taxes in return for the free stuff I very much doubt Scott's are willing to pay taxs that high unless of course he plans to follow the last labour government a spend based on huge amounts of borrowing

Given that the other half of the union which plan A would require are saying a pretty loud no thanks, I think we're entitled to know what plan B is and therefore be able to question it.

He doesn't want to answer the question because he knows we won't like the answer!

I've heard a bit about it Sallyingforth - need to do some more reading. However, if they're our oil fields then they're ours, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, til rust us do part...!