to think that the Harry Potter are timeless literature and the films are woefully miscast?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Inflammatory title to draw you in. I hope. I just fancied some HP chat.

I'm re-watching the films at the moment. Is it me or is there something old-ladyish about Alan Rickman's mouth? I realize I am thinking about this far too hard, and I know it's practically forbidden to speak ill of him on MN. But every time I see those films, I'm disappointed again that he just isn't as sexy as his voice.

I also think the Burrow looks all wrong to me. I love what they do with the reeds in the scene where Bellatrix taunts Harry and he and Ginny run after her. But I imagined the Burrow being rural and farmland-ish, with an overgrown garden around it - not plonked down in the middle of a marsh. Am I right?

What's your favourite bit of the films/books?

YABU to describe these potboilers as 'timeless literature' even my then 7 year olds thought they were shite *no not jealous not at all

If you read the very next line - the first line of the OP - you will see I did acknowledge it was a deliberately inflammatory title.

I put it in because IME it's impossible to have a thread about any popular fiction without someone jumping in to say how crap it is.

Thank you (again) slithy! That was basically dd's explanation too. I realise I sit and watch these films over and over without ever joining the dots sometimes!

Agree about the logic- Harry didn't so much disarm Draco as just lift the wand out of his hand. And surely in all the bunfighting that wouldn't have been the first time since the death of DD that Draco had been disarmed?

yes well I just saw HP/timeless literature and started frothing uncontrollably at the mouth sorry.
I love popular fiction but I do have limits

dranksangriainthepark as i recall in the book it was more of a disarming! the film dumbed it down. and draco was quite cossetted, so probably didn't do much fighting.

The thing is, how many of the classics were actually written as "literature" rather than popular fiction for the time? I don't think many were.

So Harry Potter could well in 50/100 years time be considered literature.

Jane Austen, as an example, to me lays claim to nothing greater than being the grandmother of chicklit. But lots of people thinks she's the best author ever. I remain on the same side of the fence as Mark Twain.

Froth away. I apologize for being provocative with my title.

alis - seeing as how I research medieval popular lit, I am very, very, very likely to agree with you. Mind you, a lot of it is really trashy, too. I mean, it's amazing writing in places, but it also has clangers of plot holes.

I admit, when I put my cards on the table, I don't think HP is great literature, because I think one of her weaker points is her writing style. IMO, someone like Susan Cooper can write gorgeous prose of children, and to be fair, JKR is popular because her writing is really easy to whip through without anything bothering you. I do think her plotting and world building are excellent, though (elder wand kerfuffles aside).

Btw, I think the disarming thing is about volition, isn't it? Draco doesn't want to fight and doesn't want to fight Harry, so all Harry does in the film is tug the wand out of his hand.

Although, I find it odd that there's such a thing in the books about Voldemort being too reliant on magic and Harry and his friends winning because they don't turn their backs on human/muggle ways of doing things. Yet pilfering from someone's tomb is surely the least magically high-tech thing you could do, right?

This thread has made me want to read them all again. I think I'll download them onto my kindle so I can plough through them during nightfeeds with dc2.

Oh, they'd be perfect for that. They are so easy to dip in and out of - that's one of the things I like about them.

I don't think it's great literature either, enjoyable and nostalgic certainly.

Who knows what future generations will make of it though gonna be on the syllabus

They're so satisfying, though. Because of all that cross-referencing to other genres. I really like how she does that, and you could read the books as a young child who isn't a reader and not notice it. Or you can notice she's ripping off a bit of this and a bit of that.

My absolute favourite bit, which I still think is totally arrogant of JRK, is the fact she uses the Libation Bearers as an epigraph for the last book. It's Greek tragedy, FFS!

I would be interested to know what the definition of great literature is then?

I dunno, but I suspect examples of it's writers will include a lot of white men ...

Yes, I agree with that, fate.

It's funny, I'd not thought of HP and the digital age (duh!) but so true. It's strange - I remember when the first one came out, and that was pre-internet or at least pre-internet for my family. It was about the first book my very dyslexic little brother managed to read, and that's such a common experience he's had. And then by the time the last one came out, we were all on the net and seeing the films and so on. Peculiar.

Do you find it messes with your memory of the stories? Because I do! In a good way.

LRD I didn't notice that on the first reading but I did on the second and did snigger a bit at the audacity.

Apparently JKR signed a very old bust in a hotel shortly after one of the books/films came out and essentially told the manager they should be honoured. Obviously it could be one of those urban myths but I suspect it has a grain of truth.

I'd think I was billy big balls a bit as well, in the moment after the success the books had

I heard that! About the bust, I mean.

I do think she is very good at making a story out of how she wrote the books. But fair enough to her, really.

Something my husband and I always argue about is her use of nominative determinism. I love it, he thinks its really pants

I love the way Lupin becomes a werewolf, Sirius a black dog, the Gaunts...

She's a creator of stories... So why not

Snape. I love that too. And the names of the spells and all the other things she's used inspiration from elsewhere for. Lots of Greek and Latin and myths and legends.

It amuses me.

I think it adds a nice extra layer because they are children's books - you're meant to read them when you don't know that Remus Lupin means Woolfy McWoolf, aren't you?

Although ... I know I am not the only dyslexic who completely mispronounces half the names and most of the made-up words.

Wolfy McWolf

I like that Minerva is the goddess of wisdom amongst other things and is known for her owl.
In fact when I come across something I can't think of the reason behind I have to look it up because I'm sure she's thought of everything.