to think the biggest threat to this country is war between generations

[suziepra]

In modern UK the young have to look forward to a backbreaking amount of debt as even to be a pa you need a degree. Then once they graduate they will be lucky to get a decent wage and only a tiny amount of people under 30 (3% of homes win last six months were purchased by under 30s) will be able to buy a houses. They will probably have a miserable time stuck at home during their 20s and 30s finding it difficult to start a family. Then they will have to work for the rest of their lives. Whereby watching their parents who bought cheep homes, retire in their 60s and enjoy 20 years of retirement. Yes I know there are exceptions to what I said, but this does seem to be the norm in the south east. I can see things going nasty.

Will Self likened the Baby Boom generation to a giant warty toad, squatting over the younger generations.

Hmmm, if that's right, it's interesting Steeleye. It sounds a bit like
Phili 'They fuck you up your mum and dad' Larkin to me, who also wrote 'Toads'.

This doesn't prove a thing, but it sounds a bit homage-y to me! And at 51 by many accounts WS would be regarded as a second wave BB himself.

I am not saying I disagree with everything you say, but you do sound a little bitter.

Actual war won't happen, but your completely right about the rest of it. Older generations have build up, a government debt that their kids will have to pay off in order to keep taxes low and services high; i.e. todays children are paying for the services and pensions enjoyed by todays adults! Raising house prices make this worse (an increase in the value of something typically owned by older generations) although I disagree on tuition fees which I think aren't as bad as implied. The reason actual war won't happen is that the cause of all this is apathy among most of the youngest in society, look at turnout figures at the last election;
www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2613/How-Britain-Voted-in

And as an example, my DD (aged 30) has a degree, a DD, a mortgage, a full time job and has paid off her student loan. Without parental help or a husband.

And I know several of her friends who are also doing just as well, so I am not sure quite why you sound so bitter. (I'm just showing that it is possible - I'm not meaning to sound gloaty)

Labour have said that they will abolish the bedroom tax and even the Lib Dems are no longer supporting it as is

The older generation are parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles . Most people I know who are over 60 are still helping out their children and grand children and are very worried for their futures. Yes, I know some who retired with lump sums - which they have spent on their kids. I certainly expect to be trying to help out my son for years to come. I don't think trying to pit one generation against another is accurate or helpful.

IsIt Workplace benefits (inc annual leave) were brought about under heavy pressure from the Trade Unions, I'm not sure any political party can really claim the credit for that one, it was a foregone conclusion.

I do agree with you that change can be brought about, but I refer back to my earlier point about political apathy in the younger generations. Nobody seems to care as much now as they did in the early 20th century. Well, certainly not enough to make any meaningful change.

JenniferJo, I fear you are in the minority of your generation. I'm afraid I see little but selfishness and petty-mindedness in most of the retired people I come across. I have long since given up trying to reason with them, instead, I take great comfort in the fact that the Baby Boomers will soon not be the main power-holders in society and a more liberal and fair approach to the division of wealth in the uk will come to the fore.

We're all going to die broke, Steeleye. We'll have to pay for our care and sell all our assets to do so.

Yet another baby boomer bashing . Oh yes we have it all . Sick of it .
We struggled a lot to bring up our family with little money . No holidays or smart phones ....no childcare provision if you needed nurseries etc .
Every penny spare has gone on my children OP to help them in adulthood .
Not all of us are living the retirement dream you think we are .
Pretty poor actually but not complaining or asking for support from my children now they are ok .

The problem is that governments serve the interests of those that vote, this isn't an intentional plot by the older generation but if they are the ones that vote. That explains why, for example, while in the middle of a rhetoric about not being able to afford our current welfare state and deep cuts to working age benefits pensions and associated benefits (winter fuel etc.) have been protected to ensure they go up (the triple lock) and aren't even being means tested. And those pensions are being paid for by a government budget deficit that can't be continued forever so the younger generation can't hope for state pensions that generous.
The sad thing is whilst this is all wrong and unfair it is the younger generations fault for not turning up to the polling station.

Incidentally, the idea that on a political level the older generation is screwing the younger genration isn't incompatible with some (even many or most) helping their kids on an individual levels but;
1 - you are helping solve problems that the political system that favours the older generations has caused
2 - to really solve these problems (and to ensure all not just those with genrous parents are helped) is political reform

I don't disagree about political change but I am frustrated with this notion that the older generation don't care about the future and are out there living it up at their childrens' expense. It's not what I see at all.

I feel sorry fir young people.

I am 40 and mortgaged til 68. I don't think I will access my pension til 70. And that's calculated over average earnings rather than final salary.

We are just fatalistic about it now. We will work til we are very old ( if we are lucky) and then quite soon after, we will die.

My generation Will not be taking that cruise to the Galapagos islAnds, we will not have the opportunity to become 'bored with Brazil' like some of my mums friends.

Tbh I'm quite tired of the sixties generation. They really do believe their own publicity.

DP and I are working hard and hope to be able to sell our current flat when the children leave home and buy a much smaller one and give the cash left over to them. We are not anticipating any sort of retirement

Tbh I'm quite tired of the sixties generation. They really do believe their own publicity

Don't know about that, but you certainly seem to Queen

And btw at 40, you ARE young people

I do think this is only a problem in the south. I am 29 (today, yayy me!!) and DH is 31, we have owned our own flat for 3 years and now we own our own house as do a lot of our friends of the same age and circumstance. We don't earn huge amounts, DH makes about 26,000 a year and I don't even earn enough to pay regular tax but we bought within our means. I know its not possible for everyone but it is unreasonable to say this will cause a war between generations.

Happy birthday Lally!

And well done you, and your friends

just come back from USA and quite depressing to see elderly people still working and looking worn out.

if people don't retire that creates a problem in some ways.

Unpaid internships zero hours contracts and workfare are not the fault of the older generation.
However I do feel they could try to be more understanding.
My DM came out with this doozy last weekend
"People are only going to food banks because they don't want to work"

And I KNOW shes not the only one because ive seen other MNers on other threads saying that their parents and in laws make similar comments.

My dad used to be a shop steward when I was a child/teenager I would always hear him on the phone negotiating for the other workers (he was a building site forman) Like Bob Crow he used the word "cobblers" a lot.

Now he agrees with the Norman Tebbit "get on your bike" school of thinking. (WTF happened)

Its not the timing of their birth that is the problem It is the lack of understanding coming from SOME of them that is a sore point with younger generations IMO!

DidoTheDodo Sun 03-Aug-14 16:48:35

And as an example, my DD (aged 30) has a degree, a DD, a mortgage, a full time job and has paid off her student loan. Without parental help or a husband

Feminism is to thank for this. Because in the 70s she would not have got a mortgage on her own without a father or a husband signing as guaruntoor.

My mum is 70 and when she was a mum in her late 20's and 30's times were very tough.

There was very little spare money at the end of the month. We couldn't afford a car, meals out were rare, maybe the odd trip to a Berni Inn. Sometimes we had Chinese food. My mum never went out for a coffee with her friends, they would always go to each other's houses instead. We went on holiday (UK only) about 3 times in my childhood.

My dad had a professional job, so we were by no means poor for the times. We did live in our own home, but in the 1970's mortgages were almost impossible for most people to access. Taxation was incredibly high so people's take home pay was hammered. Food was very expensive and meat was a luxury. Toys and books were few and only received at birthdays and Christmas.

So while it may seem that the older generation has it easy now, they were struggling when they were raising their kids. I think it is typical for the years of having young children to be the hardest financially.

My nephew would probably agree with the Norman Tebbit world view. He's 22. My 60+ friends meanwhile are furious about zero hour contracts - their kids are on them. I really don't think it's helpful to frame this an old versus young conflict.

When I said war ithat doesn't mean violence. It cold be a cold war, pensioners sat around all day with none of their children coming to visit. Young people could en mass relocate to different parts of the globe or do anything to stop funding the lifestyles of others that they won't receive themselves.

Young people of today won't be gloating in their 60s about using a winter fuel allowance as the deposit for a cruise, they will probably be working and in need of the fund that will have been abolished.

I agree Flois. I was just giving threads ive seen on MN and stuff ive heard in RL as an example.

A lot of young people ascribe to the Tebbit view . As well as newspapers like the Mail aiming propaganda at older people ive seen publications like Closer printing benefit bashing stories (these celebrity rags are bought by a lot of young people.) A few weeks back Grazia called Esther McVey the woman who would win the election. Another publication aimed at younger women.
Most of these publications have a right wing slant.
People under 30 have also grown up on a diet of reality tv and an obsessive celebrity culture.
This is no accident. Its been a nice little distraction and has obviously worked rather well.

Lots of the boomers I know are furious about their kids on zero hour contracts but also are equally furious that the state pension isn't higher and pass the blame onto the governments, that they elected.