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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder wtf?

80 replies

kappadelta · 01/08/2014 18:05

DH is in redundancy consultation. Everyone 'at risk' has to apply for new more senior roles.

18 months ago directly after returning to work after paternity leave DH was put on a 6 month appraisal.

After the 6 months he was offered the option to step down or be fired.He chose to step down and took a huge pay cut but seemed happier.

The Manager who orchestrated all this then destroyed all paperwork relating to the 6 month appraisal.

DH does not want to stay in the company. I've spoken to Acas and his union who state that he could have used the appraisal to support his inability to do this quite senior role and secure redundancy.

As there is no paper trail he can't actually do this and he's only just told me now.

So WTF is it just DH or do all men behave this way?

OP posts:
Original poster
kappadelta · 02/08/2014 19:28

Garlic - Yes he does think that's what will happen.

He's not captain dynamo and in RL I have been supporting him but feel very frustrated with him not telling me everything that happened 18 months agoSad

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GarlicAugustus · 02/08/2014 19:31

Their reasoning looks good on paper. In such a case, all H needs to do is apply as instructed, then spend the interview moaning about workplace stressors, being bullied and how much time his responsibilities to his disabled child take out of his day.

I'm suggesting that particular approach to 'cocking it up on purpose' because it won't do any harm to imply he's ready to take action against the employer.

I think you/he should get proper advice on making formal complaints about being screamed at, and the reason for it. He's got at least one protected characteristic.

GarlicAugustus · 02/08/2014 19:33

Yes, I see that Flowers It is a worry. What does he say about not telling you?

notkatemiddleton · 02/08/2014 19:34

Ok they are right no legal to voluntary redundancy. But VR isn't the same as turning down an unsuitable role.

If he doesn't think the role is suitable then he can make a tribunal claim or do the 4 week thing. Off to cinema now so prob will respond in morning.

Original poster
kappadelta · 02/08/2014 19:40

Garlic - he didn't want to worry me. I had just had a baby and we had just moved and taken on a larger mortgage.

OP posts:
Original poster
kappadelta · 02/08/2014 19:41

Kate - thanks for all the advice. Have a lovely time.Grin

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notkatemiddleton · 02/08/2014 23:17

On further reflection this evening I was thinking about a case i was defending about 5 years ago during the economic downturn. There were similarities with this case in that discrimination was an issue prior to the redundancy process however this was to do with my client who felt discriminated against previously on the basis of his sexual orientation. However the judge considered essentially that but for the discrimination taking place would the result have been the same? The answer was yes and it didn't impact the redundancy procedure.

my recommendation remains the same. He needs to right a letter to HR stating his concerns about the role being unsuitable on the basis that it is a higher grading and he has already demonstrated that he cannot perform at that level. Therefore he considers he should be eligible for redundancy on the basis that there are no 'alternative' suitable roles.

I wouldn't necessary spend the whole interview process moaning about being bullied, 'cocking up the process' on purpose. This will just delay the inevitable and there is every chance they will just put him in the role anyway despite of his causing you both further stress and anxiety when you could follow a simpler and less emotionally exhaustive process and get the same outcome.

In fact, they may well just tell him to refocus on the issue and that is his suitability for the role, not things that have happened in the past. this will be especially so if he has already exhausted the grievance procedure.

I appreciate that it will have been hard for you both especially looking after a disabled child but my job is to highlight case weaknesses and whilst i don't condone this style of management in anyway, the difficulty is that they may be able to exhibit that this type of behaviour wasn't specific to your dh and in fact other people (regardless of parentage) were treated in a comparable way. They could also state that the reason they were not happy for him to leave on time is that his job wasn't finished despite that they felt he was given adequate time.(PS. PLEASE DONT THINK I AM FLAMING YOUR DH IN ANYWAY- I am just thinking of potential comebacks from his employer). In any event, many contracts of employment specify that the employee will need to work over their allocated hours to finish their responsibilities and accountabilities, which always is a grey area and an et will have the last say on its interpretation.

if you do decide to go with my advice, then feel free to PM me a draft of the letter.

GarlicAugustus · 03/08/2014 00:03

my recommendation remains the same. He needs to right a letter to HR stating his concerns about the role being unsuitable on the basis that it is a higher grading and he has already demonstrated that he cannot perform at that level. Therefore he considers he should be eligible for redundancy on the basis that there are no 'alternative' suitable roles.

That's jolly sensible, Kate :)

notkatemiddleton · 03/08/2014 00:12

Oh god! *write not right....... I blame heat/pregnancy (blush)

Original poster
kappadelta · 03/08/2014 06:19

Kate - thanks for the advice we are going to start drafting a letter.

DH said everyone at risk is going to have an individual meeting with the General Manager and Personnel Manager prior to the selection process.

Do we send the letter now or wait until after that meeting?

OP posts:
msrisotto · 03/08/2014 06:50

wtf indeed. I have no employment legal advice but I do feel for you. The fact that you are having to sort this for him is unbelievable though. Is he so incompetent generally? Do you have to do everything?

Getafuckingjob · 03/08/2014 07:36

My husband is also an undynamic plodder. I do all the CV sending, looking for jobs and sometimes have to have a huge row to make him even call someone about a job. Also I have to leave him alone to do it as he won't call in front of me. Then when I check his call log secretly later I see that he never made the call and that he lied when he said he did.

It is very frustrating. He has niche skills and will only look for positions in that area but also with certain conditions.

Sorry to derail your thread OP, just wanted to vent a bit. :(

Original poster
kappadelta · 03/08/2014 08:36

Geta - no problem, It's frustrating isn't it?

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Original poster
kappadelta · 03/08/2014 08:38

Risotto - I do feel that do have to advise and guide him a lot. He is a good soul and is extremely kind though.

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notkatemiddleton · 03/08/2014 10:53

I would send it now in advance of the meeting so they can discuss it with him. Copy in the union, HR person and CEO

Original poster
kappadelta · 03/08/2014 11:43

Thanks Kate. I will do. Hope you had a good time last night.

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notkatemiddleton · 03/08/2014 13:08

Yes it was good thanks. Dawn of the planet of the apes.

My husband was very similar to yours. However his profession earns a lot more than mine when they aren't even trying but for his current job I did send his CV for it as he didn't think they would be interested in him. They were and he's now much more confident as a result. No he's happier in his job he's more motivated to do extra courses and make a real career for himself. unsurprisingly i do all the legal contractual work for him!

Original poster
kappadelta · 05/08/2014 14:03

I've spoken to the union today. They have advised that the company should be using their best endeavours to find DH suitable alternative employment.

They advised that expecting him to go through the selection process is not 'best endeavours'. They can give him the job but to expect him to apply for a post that he doesn't want isn't appropriate.

He can then reject the post as not a suitable alternative in terms of status, responsibility, hours, contract etc.

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GarlicAugustus · 05/08/2014 15:15

Oh, good! That sounds a LOT more straightforward than all the passive-aggressive shenanigans the employers have set up. Have they recommended a best approach to dealing with it?

notkatemiddleton · 05/08/2014 15:51

I do love hearing how unions describe things, but this is what i told you, yes?

Well, they could of course argue that the role is a suitable alternative but given your husband has been on a performance action plan when he was at that level I don't think they would.

Unfortunately its not about 'wants' its about whether its a reasonable alternative. If it was a reasonable alternative and there were no grounds to suggest it wasn't, then they could quite rightly refuse his redundancy pay.

So you need to tell the employers why its not a suitable alternative. If they disagree then you apply to a tribunal (unfortunately after you have tried to resolve it via acas first). I would do this in writing in advance of the next consultation meeting.

notkatemiddleton · 05/08/2014 15:52

Correction.....

"...Unfortunately its not about 'wants' its about whether its a reasonable alternative. If it was a reasonable alternative and there were no grounds to suggest it wasn't, then they could quite rightly refuse his redundancy pay..." IF HE WANTED TO REJECT IT WITHOUT GOOD REASON.

Original poster
kappadelta · 05/08/2014 16:30

Kate - yes your right. He wasn't at the level before that they want him to apply for it's a level above the one he was at before iyswim.

We have started to draft the letter and have a bit of time to do that as DH is on annual leave now.

If your offer still stands I would be grateful if you would look it over before we send it? Smile

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notkatemiddleton · 05/08/2014 17:01

yes thats fine. copy and paste it and send in a PM.

Original poster
kappadelta · 09/08/2014 10:48

Kate - he went for the interview at the other place and was offered the job yesterday.

They said they were prepared to wait 6 weeks for him as he was the right man for the job.

They asked him to go up and look around today and said that the MD has stated they now need him to start in 2 weeks.

To do this he would have to forgo redundancy pay and breach his contract as it states 4 weeks notice.

He is so disappointed Sad

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GarlicAugustus · 09/08/2014 13:48

Surely the current employer will let him go? It'll save them time & money!

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