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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Undercharged. WWYD?

226 replies

Haffdonga · 31/07/2014 18:15

OK, so what would you honestly honestly do? Not what is the right thing or what you would like to think you would do, but actually really do?

Today I bought 3 items in TK Maxx. They were all processed at the till, tags removed etc. The bill came to less than I'd expected and I assumed that something had been reduced , hooray.

When I get home I check the receipt and find that a pair of school shoes was not included on the bill. I think they were £25-ish. To go back and pay now would involve a return journey into town and parking costs. Plus Dh is facing redundancy for the second time in 3 years so we're feeling very poor.

You'd go back and pay, wouldn't you?

OP posts:

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 01/08/2014 10:39

Maybe the question is - if the OP had got home and found she had been overcharged by the same cashier, would she have just shrugged and 'written it off' or would she have been straight on the phone to the company to complain and insist on a refund?

And yes, Squeaky - we do have the choice to shop elsewhere - but that shop will also have put some pennies or pounds onto their prices to cover shrinkage - so we don't have the option not to pay for shrinkage, if it is items that we need - like school shoes.

And yes, maybe the shops will not raise their prices to cover excessive shrinkage - but they will not cover it out of their profits or their shareholders' dividends - so it could come out of staff wages. I assume that your point about McDonalds' wages vs their burger prices means that you would not be happy about this (and whilst I cannot see how that is relevant to the current discussion, I am happy to agree with you that a small amount extra on the cost of each burger to allow payment of a minimum wage would be a good thing).

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 01/08/2014 10:41

Anyhow - the bottom line is that, to me it seems dishonest to keep something I haven't paid for. That is my standard. I don't expect the rest of the world to share it - clearly they don't. But I am not going to apologise for it, and I do not think it would be reasonable for me to be called sanctimonious for it.

ChocolateWombat · 01/08/2014 10:43

Interesting that lots of people would return to a small shop but not a big chain shop.
I suppose it is determined by whether you have decided that because big chain stores make big profits, that means you owe them less, in terms of morality. That is what is implied by saying you would return to one type of shop rather than another. Somehow, it is not okay to leave the small trader without the money for the shoes, but it is, for the big chain.
Odd! Surely it is either right or wrong. I don't regard what as happened as stealing, but the double standard is moving towards saying it is okay to steal from some types of people and not others. Why?

OP and others, think an interesting way to look at it, is how you would explain your choices to your children. What would you tell them they should do In The situation and how would you justify your choice. For me, simple honesty seems better and easier to explain. I don't want to tell my children that sometimes we should be honest and other times we should not be. Nor do I want them to develop an approach of always seeing what they can get away with, and rigidly sticking to the letter of the law, rather than principles behind them. I want them to be able to make honest, fair decisions for themselves.
Great talking point to have with the children. Ask them what they would do in this situation and why. OP, have you mentioned your dilemma to your child? If not, why not?

So, I'm sure that the OP is never going to be in trouble with the law over these shoes. Even if the shop realise what happened and even knew how to contact her, I doubt they would. So in that sense, she has and can 'get away with it' but the Q us whether we should take advantage of every situation like this, which is then to the detriment of someone else. yes, it is a nameless someone else, because it is a big corporation, but someone else all the same. I would rather not have the £25 and know I had done the right thing, than this little gain with the Knoweldge it was a bit dishonest, even if not illegal.

GalaxyInMyPants · 01/08/2014 10:44

I had this in Tesco recently. I wasn't charged for a Punnet of raspberries. I haven't gone back.

pinkie1982 · 01/08/2014 10:45

No way - not your problem :)
Just be grateful, luck was shining on you

gamerwidow · 01/08/2014 10:45

no way I would go back. If I noticed in store I'd say something but not now.

ChocolateWombat · 01/08/2014 11:53

Hmm, yes tricky re raspberries.
I'm sure this has happened to me and probably everyone else, regarding a low cost item in a supermarket.
I probably wouldn't realise as don't check my supermarket bill carefully. I'm pretty sure that if you phoned up about an item like this, they would say not to bother coming back.
The shoe thing seems different though....I guess because it is higher priced as an item. Quite where the cut off lies though, I'm not sure.

In the end it is a matter for personal conscience. I would probably err on the side of phoning the shop over most things. I don't see it as an issue of 'getting away' with things,because it does have a negative effect on others, even if a small amount and even if from a big corporation which builds in for such losses. To me, honesty is better than getting away with things.

I still like the idea of asking the children what they think. If you can explain and justify your position to your child and would want them to take a similar approach, then that is a start.

EthicalPickle · 01/08/2014 11:58

Galaxy. Don't worry about the raspberries, I bought a punnet from Tescos a couple of days ago and when I went to eat them a few hours later I realised they were inedible. So your free raspberries are equalled out by my rotten but paid for ones.

GalaxyInMyPants · 01/08/2014 12:07

I feel better now. My raspberries were very nice.

Its their stupid self serve till. It beeped and I thought it had gone through. It never said unexpected item in bagging area which is surprising.

TheNumberfaker · 01/08/2014 12:10

I don't owe a company anything in terms of morality. Another human yes, a charity perhaps but not a company.

slithytove · 01/08/2014 12:14

The changing bag I 'bought' which wasn't scanned was £40!

However. I am now wondering if the cashier did it on purpose. We were having a nice chat, I was being very sympathetic about how awful all the redundancies were (kiddicare), she seemed to appreciate my comments, and she was quite pointed about removing the security tag and then telling me I could put it back in my trolley.

Not sure. But there is no way I knew it hadn't scanned considering the amount she handled it.

SqueakySqueak · 01/08/2014 12:15

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius That's my point about the McDonald's food. It would take the company losing millions for a product to go up even a few cents (and yes I would be more than happy to pay even an extra dollar to support a better wage for them).

Like I said stores plan for losses in their current prices.

I know you really want her actions to have an impact on the average joe, but it just isn't so. We had shoplifting problems at a store we used to go to. Guess what happened? No one was fired, no one got a pay cut, and they installed more security cameras, door detectors, and locked small things up behind glass. That's what happens when missing items become commonplace. They spend money on security measures to keep profits. They don't doc money out of worker wages like Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Really it's just a personal morality. Returning the shoes would only benefit her and her conscious. It is good to do the right thing and set a good example for your kids to follow. But it's not going to hurt anyone to keep them, and outside feeling good, returning the shoes won't benefit anyone.

ChocolateWombat Re: Double Standards. Everything has a grey area. Life isn't black and white. There are no absolutes that apply to every situation. If I stole a penny from you it would technically be wrong, but it wouldn't hurt you and I doubt you'd notice. If I stole $1,000 it would be terrible and you'd have a hard time with bills and rent. You would not look at those two thefts the same way if it happened (unless you're a particularly high strung person). A penny would cause annoyance and maybe a silly AIBU thread, while $1,000 would cause legal action. There is no such thing as one size fits all justice, punishment, or morality. Life doesn't work like that.

FyreFly · 01/08/2014 12:17

Good grief.

Legally, there is no theft here. The shoes are not stolen. No court in the land would even glance at this if it was (somehow) brought into question.

The basic definition of theft is when someone dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another, with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

Even under the definition of "dishonesty" clause there's nothing that would cause the situation in the OP to be dodgy.

The OP has selected her goods, taken them to a cashier, been charged an amount for them, has agreed and paid the amount asked, received the goods, and there the contract between the trader and the patron ends and is complete.

There might be some "good faith" arguments that could be made for the shop asking for the rest of the payment, but I don't know if that's written in legal stone. Someone else might know more about good faith.

Salmotrutta · 01/08/2014 12:22

I'm with StDG on this really.

And I do believe we all pay up eventually for instances like this - even if the company is insured against loss that still gets passed on to the customer surely?

And I really don't think it matters whether it's a small shop or a big chain - I just think it's about doing the right thing.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 01/08/2014 12:24

Squeaky - I don't consider my conscience as something minor, so if doing something benefits it, I think it is worth doing. And I don't think it is 'just' personal morality - I think personal morality is pretty important.

Salmotrutta · 01/08/2014 12:29

Sorry - I mixed your letters up SDTG!

ChocolateWombat · 01/08/2014 12:29

Yes, I see what you mean, but I think all of this is just a way to justify any action to oneself.
When I decide how to act, I don't decide based on if my actions will affect a charity or a big business or an individual. I do believe that there is a right response and I think that big business is as entitled to decent behaviour as an individual is. If you are anti big business and think they deserve all they get, in terms of negatives, go the full hog and don't shop with them in the first place.
I really don't like the 'it isn't hurting anyone' approach. For one thing, it is not true. There may not be a specific individual who gains by the shoes being returned, in terms of the shop worker etc, or a tangible impact on the price of other goods, but collectively the behaviour of shoppers does have an impact. We can only be responsible for ourselves and the way we behave. And I don't like the sense of only looking out for number One in all of this either....always looking for advantage, regardless of the impact on others. It is good to consider others,whether we know them or not.
I also think that these little things matter, because conscience is easily blunted over time. We start by not contacting the store about the shoes, and then next time when it is something worth £50 it feels okay too, and onwards.
I do gyre that there are grey areas, such as the very small items. However, I think we do well to hold onto some general principles....and being pleased to get away with things doesn't seem the best one to have.

ChocolateWombat · 01/08/2014 12:31

Previous post was a reply to SQUEAKY.
I agree with SDT too.

MrsGeorgeMichael · 01/08/2014 12:36

this has happened to me and i did go back
it was a coat that i debated over buying. i was doing other shopping and didn't notice until i was sorting receipts (wanted to keep it incase i changed my mind)
i went straight back - staff were shocked that i had bothered but thanked me very much for doing so

i would ring the shop and explain what happened and ask them can they take payment over phone assuming card payment

Wait4nothing · 01/08/2014 13:06

I would only ever consider going back if an individual would get in trouble for the mistake (so mentioned to our waitress last week she had missed of our bottle of wine - she had been fab and very busy).
In this case definately not! I'm sure they would not re-inburse any costs you would pay in trying to put right their mistake! Nobody is going to be in trouble for this. A bit of good luck on your part when you needed it!

HennaFlare · 01/08/2014 17:41

I would phone them and ask to pay over the phone. If they won't let you, you've tried. It shouldn't cost you money to rectify their error, but you should pay for what you've left with.

Donating to charity is such a weird "solution". Can anyone explain why they think this rectifies anything? If someone owed me money, and refused to give it to me, but said they'd made a donation to charity instead I would be baffled and not consider the debt paid in any way!

Hatetidyingthehouse · 01/08/2014 18:26

No way

Glastogirl · 01/08/2014 18:37

Nope! Wouldn't even consider going back!

HPparent · 01/08/2014 18:54

Nope. I "bought" a bottle of Champagne at M&S a couple of years ago the cashier was busy chatting and taking the tag off and forgot to ring it through. It was bought with other items so I didn't realise til DH asked how much it was when I got home.

I got a bottle of CIF bathroom spray in my Ocado order which isn't on my receipt and I definitely didn't order. Shall I keep it and give it back next time?

jackstini · 01/08/2014 19:01

I wouldn't take it back if it involved a special/costly trip, I would have to give the same amount to charity though to make up for it.

Unless it was a small family business, then I would and have done. They only charged me 13p on my card instead of £13 - the woman was gobsmacked when I went back the next day.

I have also rung Asda before when I got someone else's bag of shopping. Honesty was definitely the best policy that time - Asda were quite happy to let me keep it. it was just before Christmas and the Baileys, Vodka and Malibu was very welcome indeed!

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