To think the motorcycle campaigns are a bit one sided.

[flipchart]

I agree that motorist need to be made aware of motorcyclists on the road and about pulling out at junctions etc.

However, I think motorist are not the only reason there are motorcycle accidents. Bikers are sometimes to be blamed as well.

I live near a road that is popular for bikers because of its long straight stretch.
I can be driving it and often bikers pull out from a junction on me, trying to have a quick get away.

There have been quite a few times where I have thought that the biker has had a lucky escape but the motorist was not to blame. The biker either under estimated someone's time and distance and took a chance.

I m NOT anti bikes at all. I love them but I do think the radio and poster campaigns seem to be putting the blame on the motorist tbh.

My DH nearly died last week whilst filtering through traffic, a guy pulled out and DH went straight into the back of him.....the guy carried on with DH on his car. DH is an experienced driver, he was wearing proper gear (which saved his life)...... The guy didn't indicate and there are witnesses so back that up.......so yes, think bike.

I'm amazed to learn that overtaking on the inside lane us acceptable here for bikes and cars.
In France it's unlawful and anyone doing that and having an accident would be considered at fault.

And tbh I can see why. Bikes are not as easy to see than cars. By default they are smaller. They might also jump from one hand to the next (eg inside lane, in between and them outside and in between) but as the car driver you are suppose to just 'see' them???

Tbh bikes just scare me. They might think they are able to judge if there is enough space for them to go I between 2 cars but I don't. Every single time, I get a shock and end up moving my car to leave them more space. Which then creates issues of it's own because you know, sometimes there is also a bicycle or another bike trying to overtake on the inside...
I really don't like the fact I have to be careful for myself and for them at the same time.

Filtering at slow speed when the traffic us more or less stationary is clearly less if a problem. But I see that happening on the road where the speed Limit us 50~60mph so not at slow speed.
I also see that regularly in 30mph zone which again isn't slow.

But the biker does that and the car hits him/moves away and the bike can't avoid it, then it's somehow the car's fault. Because they should have checked and saw him before turning of whatever.

I drive a lot around twisty, but not too windy lanes, single track A roads through hilly areas, that sort of thing.

We have had several near misses at weekends, when Mr. Weekend Biker comes hairing around bends, leaning over so far their head and shoulders are the wrong side of the centre line. I drive expecting them to be there so will always take a tight inside line on bends, but one day those riders are going to meet Mr. Weekend Sportscar going the other way, and the result is not going to be pretty.

World gone crazy I see a lot of them too every Saturday on the bendy country roads where you cannot see what is coming also witnessed a mr sportscar end up in a ditch trying to avoid the bike riders head it was a horrible site but the biker continued off down the country roads...

In my experience, bikers tend to be a menace. They drive way too fast, and are always zipping around unpredictably. They also like to overtake drivers without sufficient gaps, safe in the assumption that they will slow down to accommodate them.

Pedestrians sometimes cause themselves to get hit, we still take caution not to hit pedestrians. As a driver you are both responsible for you and other people on the road. It takes two to get into an accident. You have to account for your driving and assume that everyone else on the road is an idiot (because they are). Yes, bikers need to be more cautious since they are unprotected, unlike a car passenger. But cars are bigger and by far do more damage to bikes, than the other way around.

Some accidents are unavoidable, but there's been plenty of car accidents we've avoided just by slamming on the brakes, dodging, or letting a road rager just go ahead. When you're in the hospital recovering from injuries it doesn't matter who was right.

Two years ago one of my friends had a hell of a shock - fortunately (and incredibly, in this instance) no-one was badly injured, and everyone was only walking wounded. He was driving (in a car) along a national speed limit country road. It's not as windy as some, but not straight either, with lots of tall hedges. There's just about space for a bus and a car to pass.

He was going uphill. As he came round a left-hand bend, he could see a tractor coming downhill. Next thing he knew there was a motorbike in his windscreen and the biker was on the road behind him having flipped over the car. Like I say, VERY lucky that no-one was more seriously hurt. The biker, much quicker and more manouverable than the tractor, had decided he could overtake quickly enough on a bend and as a result was on the wrong side of the road. This is something I've seen pretty often round here, both with cyclists and bikes coming down bendy hills and deciding to steer out into the oncoming lane as they turn the corner.

Bikes are great, I've ridden them on tracks and I love the speed and manouverability of them. However there does seem to be a significant population of bikers who seem to believe that gives them the ability to pull off stunts that are incredibly dangerous. They're powerful machines that can outperform cars in many aspects, but a lot of riders seem to forget they're on a public highway, not a racetrack, and there are lives other than their own at stake.

I report an awful lot of car v motorbike accidents . The most common phrase I write when I'm taking the driver's statement , is " I didn't see him " . A few months ago , I was driving into work when someone pulled straight out in front of the motorcyclist I was following , who was riding perfectly normally , not speeding , not weaving in and out , perfectly sedate riding . The bike hit the drivers side wing , the rider was propelled over 30 metres down the road , landing face down . I thought he was dead. I ended up having to physically restrain him on the road for twenty minutes till paramedics arrived , because he had a serious head injury amongst several serious injuries , and he wanted to fight us all and crawl down the road. I ended up covered in his blood , and I mean covered , trying to stop him hurting himself anymore .

The driver was an elderly man . His first words to me ? I didn't see him .

Everyone thinks all bikers speed . I think personally that although many do , they seem to move faster because of their relative size . The trouble is that whilst many bikers also drive cars , and can think like a car driver , obviously most car drivers cannot think like a biker , so are less likely to anticipate their manoeuvres .

But it can be difficult to see motorbikes as they weave in an out much faster than the rest of the traffic. Recently I nearly had a head on collision with a motorcyclist who suddenly decided to overtake and was riding on my side of the road. He pulled back in so narrowly he brushed my wing mirror.

Here's my perspective as a bike rider with over 40 years experience (started aged 17, I'm now 62) and who hasn't driven a car since 1972.

In answer to those who think bikes are difficult to spot, I used to agree with you - until I bought an ex-police motorcycle, it had the 'Police' stickers and lights taken off but it retained the day-glo stripes etc.

Suddenly, instead of being invisible to car drivers, it felt like I had a personal follow-spot, beaming down from heaven, upon me. Cars would pull over to enable the overtake and tip their forelocks. Little old ladies smiled and children waved as I passed by.

Best of all, filtering between lanes (which is completely legal) ceased to be dangerous. Instead of being a one sided game of Russian roulette, it was like Moses parting the Red Sea - columns of traffic, miles ahead, would part like an overeager flasher's gabardine mac.

My experience suggested to me that it isn't that some people 'can't see' motorbikes, it's that some people simply don't care. It's why I now ride 'defensively' and assume that all car drivers are psychopaths. No offence but this means you!

***

Helpful Hints

If it's got a loud, high pitched exhaust, it's probably a kid on a scooter not a proper biker. Most of the dangerous stuff you see is these kids. They behave like idiots because they're 17. If he doesn't die young, Mummy and Daddy will buy him a car in 6 months time and then he'll become an equally twattish car driver.

If it's got a very loud, low pitched, grunty exhaust, it's probably a Harley-Davidson. Mostly harmless but beyond help.

Most really fast bikes on the road these days are fairly quiet, due to regulation. Don't expect to hear them first, use your mirrors!

If it's very loud and clean but not a Harley, it's probably being ridden by an idiot. Expect to be overtaken on blind bends etc.

Filtering is legal up to 20mph. Get used to it. It's illegal above 20mph but you should still expect it.

Bikers aren't on the phone or twiddling with the radio. They sit higher and have a much better idea of what's happening around them than you do.

You can fall off a bike and break your leg at a standstill. A patch of gravel under a foot is enough put you down at 0mph. Similarly, a bike may not be able to stop or go where you think they should. A biker has to deal with road features that you don't notice - spilt fuel, odd cambers, slippery manhole covers, traffic markings - any of these things may force a bike to change direction unexpectedly (to you, but not them) on order to avoid an accident. Give bikes as much room to manoeuvre as you would a car.

If there's a bike coming up from behind, don't change direction to 'help' or avoid them. They don't expect it, so it's dangerous.

A biker may appear to be behaving like a nutcase/hooted/shouted/made a rude sign because he wants you to notice him/her. You may have failed to give them obvious eye contact.

If you're driving an automatic, don't drive up to junctions and brake hard at the last moment - it scares the shit out of bikers, especially if they've already suffered a SMIDSY.

Don't tailgate a biker, they'll get nasty. Having several tons of metal sitting on your arse is frightening enough in a car. Imagine what it's like for a biker...

Am I the only one with "Red Routes" round my way? Roads where motorcyclists are more prone to riding irresponsibly - or rather, where irresponsible motorcyclists seem drawn to. These are signposted clearly with warnings of speed cameras unmarked police motorcyclists on patrol.

The real problem is with the cycling campaigns - these seem to propagate the myth that cyclists are always the victim. Even when they ride through red lights, overtake on the inside when a car is signalling, ride on the pavement, etc etc. I would like to see a proper crackdown on poor cycling - taking bad cyclists off the road until they are "re-educated" would do a great deal to improve road safety for all.

Oh would you now barinatxe. Strange for you to suddenly have a go at cyclists in a thread about motorcycling. Given that in accidents between cyclists and car drivers, it is more often the driver at fault, I don't quite see your point.

Added to that is that most of the stuff cyclists do wrong is more annoying than dangerous (I say that as someone who does have lights, stops at crossings etc and yes I do get annoyed at cyclists who don't). And that the person they are most putting at risk is themselves. Drivers have to sit tests and prove they have road legal vehicles because of the injury and damage that they can do.

If you want to experience it from a different perspective I'd suggest getting on a bike and seeing how drivers treat you. You might find it a bit of an eye opener.

Yabu, of course there are some bikers who are irresponsible but then some drivers are too.

In general bikers are very aware of cars and the rules of the road and ride accordingly. Cars not so much.