To think the motorcycle campaigns are a bit one sided.

[flipchart]

I agree that motorist need to be made aware of motorcyclists on the road and about pulling out at junctions etc.

However, I think motorist are not the only reason there are motorcycle accidents. Bikers are sometimes to be blamed as well.

I live near a road that is popular for bikers because of its long straight stretch.
I can be driving it and often bikers pull out from a junction on me, trying to have a quick get away.

There have been quite a few times where I have thought that the biker has had a lucky escape but the motorist was not to blame. The biker either under estimated someone's time and distance and took a chance.

I m NOT anti bikes at all. I love them but I do think the radio and poster campaigns seem to be putting the blame on the motorist tbh.

In Italy the combination of muggy heat causing mirages and a local preference for dark cars make it's tricky to spot cars at times so it is now a legal requirement that cars drive with their lights on at all times to make them easier to spot - I think this would be a fantastic idea to introduce for bikers.

I think it's right that the emphasis is on drivers to be careful of bikes (same as with pedestrians) rather than the other way around, but it does surprise me how often I see bikers riding like complete idiots with no thought for their own safety or anyone elses.

Also, if a biker is going above the speed limit - say 50 in a 30 - how much does that affect their responsibility for an accident? Because I imagine a large number of incidences where "the car didn't see the bike" is because they weren't expecting someone to come round a corner in the 2 seconds it took for them to look from the right to pull out.

But there are loads of bike campaigns, that's my point. Probably more that those targeted at drivers. But as a non biker you aren't aware of them because ther are targeted at places where bikers get their information.

There are ads on bike websites, stalls full of safety branded freebies at bike rallies and displays in bike shops. There are limited resources for this kind of think so, jus like any ad campaign they are carefully targeted. It starts when You get info on IAM and Bikesafe when you pass your bike test. There are also posters on road signs all along popular biking roads and at biker cafés. (See shinysideup.com )

It is kind of reassuring you hadn't noticed them. Shows the targeting works... Surveys show most if not all bikers are aware of most of them.

But there are loads of bike campaigns, that's my point. Probably more that those targeted at drivers. But as a non biker you aren't aware of them because ther are targeted at places where bikers get their information

That's good to know and I wasn't aware of how much campaigning was targeted at bikers. Just wish some of the dickheads round here paid more attention to them!

The radio advert has been on every single break since I got up at 7.00am It's the one where a deep slow voice says ' you didn't see his dad fall apart, you did't see the paramedic ..........but you didn't see him'
Everytime I want to scream but the idiot saw me and thought that he would take a chance and make a quick gettaway!!
( Not at all annoyed or shook up still at the idiot who pulled out on to Belmont Road no, no no!!)

IMO, the campaign is (apparently) disproportionately aimed at drivers, because in most collisions between a car and a motorbike, the biker will come off worse, maybe much worse, than the driver.

flipchart I think part of the issue might be that the dickheads don't go to places where the ads are. If a biker is riding in jeans and a t-shirt, (s)he's probably not been to many bike shops, websites or rallies.

Just out of interest, if you get caught speeding you can sometimes opt to take a speed awareness course. Is there a specific bike version of these?

I'm constantly being overtaken on the inside by cyclists on the motorway.

All obviously while I'm overtaking in the outside lane and they can't be fucked to wait while I complete my manouevre.

After driving in and out of London on the A40 for 10+ years of my working life, I can honestly say car drivers just are not careful enough.
I've seen numerous bikers knocked off of their bikes when filtering through traffic because a car driver then suddenly decides to switch lanes because that one seems to be going half MH quicker and bam, the poor biker is hit because there was no indication and no warning and the driver didn't do a 'life saver' check.
I honestly lost count of the times I saw this happen.

And of course yes, there are some seriously stupid bike riders as well who take too many risks.

But where I am, there are definitely campaigns that target bikers and their speeds.

I lost a friend in a bike accident.
He was over taking a queue of traffic when someone was turning right.
They were indicating he just missed it and when the correct opportunity came along for the driver to turn, there he was, over taking them.
Totally his fault and can you imagine what those poor people suffer every day? It wasn't their fault at all but they have to live with it.

We all need to drive more carefully and consideratley and be more aware of what is going on around us at all times.

goshannegorilla did you know that statistically speaking you are 21 times more likely to have a serious accident riding a horse than riding a motorbike? Want to ban them too?

In the US in 2011 you were twice as likely to die from an accident in your bathroom than from an accident on your bike. Perhaps we should get rid of those pesky toilets too?

Or maybe we could be adults and accept that all human activity involves risk and it's up to the individual to assess and make decisions on their transport options based on their perception of their own risk?

I think the problem is that "bikers" includes a huge variety of vehicles, riding styles, habits and people, as does driving a car. There is also a crossover that it significant from the biker's point of view (I don't know many riding friends these days who don't also drive. Most of my driving friends don't ride a bike though!) and to stereotype us based on the actions of a few idiots is not the way to go.

Dawndonnaagain I would have pulled across the front of you to get ahead on my bike too in those circumstances. Even though it's only a tatty little 500cc there is no way it couldn't out-accelerate your car from a standing start and therefore no chance of any inconvenience to you. I would be quarter of a mile down the road before you'd even selected second gear. If you had had a go at me you would have got a polite smile, a patronising head-to-one-side and probably a "did you mean to be so rude".......

I think a lot of drivers get frustrated when they see bikes making progress in slow traffic because slow traffic is by its very nature frustrating! Don't forget there is always a payoff though, less comfort, no radio, putting up with foul weather.

If you're being overtaken by cyclists on the motorway you really shouldn't be on the motorway in the first place....

Anyway, it doesn't matter how many of you 'saw a biker riding badly', as has been pointed out repeatedly upthread the statistics show that bikers are disproportionately at risk from motorists not seeing them and the campaigns are a response to that fact.

Yambabe I used to be a biker, my son is a biker and yes I did mean to be rude. As it happens, this was on a country lane with no traffic, I had literally just pulled up to the junction. It was a fucking dangerous and stupid move under the circumstances. Funnily enough, I was there.

Does anyone know if it is legal for bikes to create their own lane - either by driving up the centre between opposing lanes of traffic or between two lanes of traffic.

also - the turn to my road is a right turn after traffic lights - there is a turning right lane - I am frequently nearly hit while stationery and waiting to turn right or slowing to a stop by bikes overtaking the whole row of traffic
(Still movinv traffic )approaching the lights from the opposite direction - I thought they weren't meant to overtake unless they could see a space to pull back in to a which definitely is not the case - they are just trying to get through before the lights change.

Ps the bikes are coming towards me in my turn right lane- using it as a personal overtaking lane

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZqh9Aj8rM

Obviously Devil I meant motor cyclists

They should not be overtaking on the inside while someone is completing a manouevre

Yes filtering is legal in the UK. Highway code rule 88 applies if you want to look it up.

www.gov.uk/rules-motorcyclists-83-to-88/general-guidance-83-to-88

Well the

Well the link t

Talks about slow driving in relation to filtering - is it filtering at 60 mph though - we have roads that have both lanes eg opposing lanes both moving at 50 -60 mph with motorbikes drivinv between the two - if that is legal then I think the law needs changing!

It is ridiculous to have the same roads being used with different rules applying - especially with the amount of traffic increasing.

Yes it is legal and when you are learning to ride a bike you are expected to 'make reasonalbe progress' when you take your test.
So you get to the front of the traffic queue at lights, etc...
I barely passed my test because I was much too cautious.
They are scary though. But I proved my point and haven't ridden one since.

Yes filtering is legal- but the Highway Code does point out that the motorcyclist should do so at a low speed and take care. It specifically mentions looking out for traffic emerging from side roads and changing lanes.

Well in that case tbemajority of filtering I see performed is done so poorly and outside of the highway code.

I totally get going past stationary or slow traffic but on busy roads at high speeds and particularly at night (where a motorist checking mirrors may see a row of lights where it is not obvious that one of those lights is a motorbike filtering at 60mph ) should not be legal.

I think the current law is contrary to modern roads.

That would be classed as careless driving or dangerous driving, the problem with THAT is that there are few traffic police around to enforce it.

If it makes you feel any better I do know of at least one person who was prosecuted for dangerous while high-speed filtering with the evidence being his own helmetcam footage posted on youtube.......