"I'm sorry for X, but you.."

[BunnyPotter]

AIBU that if you apologise for something above - especially if it's something quite big you're apologising for - then saying the words "I'm sorry" and following them with what the other person did/does wrong isn't really an apology? It's actually putting the blame on the other person? In the same way that when someone says, "I don't mean to be rude, but.." they're almost always about to be rude!

My DP does this, irks me right off!!!!! Grrr x

I don't think I have ever, as an adult, wanted anyone to apologise to me, which is why I find it odd some people are constantly looking for validation that they are right and the other is utterly wrong - life is rarely like that.

Ladysyble obviously your MIL was utterly in tbe wrong :o but what good would an apology do - unlikely somebody who did all that would genuinely mean it, any apology would be tactical.

True. She showed (yet more of) her colours so a genuine apology wouldn't have made a lot of difference. That trust was still gone. She also used to collect ds without being asked, and I asked her in the letter not to do this as it was a juggle for me to collect him and it didn't help that I'd left work early and he wasn't there (she'd call me when I was on the bus to say she'd picked him up already so not to bother. I also made sure the school were aware). She denied ever doing it. Poor ds must have magically appeared in her car then

I also hate 'I'm sorry you feel upset about xxx'. I always correct people if they ever say that - they are in effect not taking responsibility for their actions

They are taking responsibility for feeling the way they feel and allowing you to feel the way you feel.

Sometimes the people demanding the apologies are the ones in the wrong.

Sometimes, squish. 'I'm sorry you're upset' just means 'I'm not sorry I said XYZ' though.

Exactly, and if they're not sorry they said xyz and stand by it they're hardly going to apologise for it. They may be in the right!

Maybe they're not sorry and feel xyz needed saying though LadyS - as I said its too hypothetical. "Sorry you are upset that I called you an ugly cow* - not ok, but the apology would have been freely given if meant, in this case an apology would be worthless regardless of wording and was probably made tactically or demanded. "Sorry you're upset that I am the only person willing to call you out in something awful you do regularly, which is hurting somebody else and everyone else is prettending not to see so as not to rock the boat/ because they know you'll cry" - not sorry I said what I said, only sorry it needed saying...

Sometimes, in fact many times, both parties can be at fault, albeit sometimes more one than the other. You can say sorry for your part in what happened but not want to be shunted with the whole blame surely?

And sometimes you are just saying sorry that someone is upset because you may have hit a nerve without intending to, they got the wrong end of the stick, they are oversensitive over something etc, so you are saying sorry for unintentionally upsetting them, not necessarily for something you actually did.

I've never demanded someone apologised to me either.
I also agree with squoosh that we are all responsible for our own emotions. You can behave in the same way towards 2 people, 1 gets upset the other doesn't. Whether or not people get upset is often related to their personality and thought processes and not just someone being nasty to them.
Obviously some things are inherently upsetting. If my husband swore at me I would be upset.
I wouldn't be wanting an apology in that circumstance though I'd be wanting to know wtf was going on why he did it and how we repair our relationship. Him just saying sorry and not elaborating on why he said it would be no use at all.
Some people here seem to always be apologising to each other in their relationships. I find that odd.

I'm always happy to admit when I'm at fault but tire of 'I'm sorry you felt upset....

'Im sorry you felt upset when I didn't put Nigel (aged 6 months) in a car seat on the motorway''. This isn't an acceptable apology, I don't care how anyone feels, I just want my baby to be safe and to know I can trust them in the future.

This was one of the traits of my ex who would never apologise without inseting a "but" after it and explaining why it was all my fault in the first place.

Times when I had done something wrong (sometimes I had, sometimes I hadn't) my apologies were supposed to be unequivocal, and if I didn't apologise the sulks would last for days (even weeks)

I agree that most situations are far more complicated than one person saying Sorry without explanation.

I fell out with a friend recently when they really did just need to say sorry and leave it at that! But most of the time I think sorry plus explanation and proper discussion is much more helpful towards building a better relationship.

If someone didn't put my 6 month old in a childseat on the motorway I wouldn't want an apology, I'd want an explanation as to why they were being so negligent, an undertaking that it would never happen again and they'd be told they weren't getting to take him anywhere in the car until I could trust them.
Some people seem to want an apology where I want an explanation and undertaking not to do it again. I don't care if they're sorry or not.
I'm more focussed on the future than the past.
If people in a relationship are always having to apologise to each other then I think it's a bad sign, either someone is getting overly upset about day to day minor stuff or they have totally different views and values, or don't love each other enough to not deliberately piss each other off.

I am also in the camp that discussion is what leads to the apology-requiring situation being avoided in the future.

'I'm sorry I did x,y or z, but I wish you had told me earlier that you were upset because I would have apologised immediately if I had known' is a perfectly reasonable apology as far as I am concerned.'

'I'm sorry you're upset about x,y,z because I was trying to help and now I realise that it wasn't what you wanted I will be more careful in future' is also a perfectly reasonable apology.

Rarely is someone SO far in the wrong that they do not deserve the opportunity to at least explain themselves or express their regret that things hadn't been handled differently and shouldn't be permitted to say anything other than 'I'm sorry'. In those situations, I would be surprised if any apology would be enough.

I understand that sometimes a 'but' can completely negate the whole apology, but I think that sometimes it can be someone's way of saying 'we were both in the wrong, but I want us to talk about it rather than having a stalemate over who actually apologises'. As someone who has lived with a sulker, I would often use this tactic to 'break' the sulk as it were, rather than prolonging it unnecessarily or admitting that all the fault was on my side just to have it over and done with.

I couldn't live with a sulker. I think it's abusive behaviour. I don't want to play the role of naughty child to someone else's silent and bitter martyr. If I've done something to annoy my husband I expect him to tell me what it is (and he does), but as we work on the premise that we don't deliberately upset each other we rarely get annoyed with each other.

Sulkers are the absolute pits. There's a special place in hell just for them.

The one that gets me is "I apologise if I've upset you …"

Well fucking say sorry then mum you arse!

Squoosh, just to say I always love your posts!

That's it really. Sorry for hijacking.

And I don't like passive aggressive apologisers either.

I don't think the 'I'm sorry you feel' apology is always so bad. I have had a number of disagreements with DH about things which are subjective. Sometimes it can get heated.

I am genuinely sorry if he is upset, and he is if I am, but neither of us are necessarily going to apologise for our views on / having done or not done something for which there isn't a definitive right or wrong, IYSWIM.

Am also going to use the 'reverse but'. I really liked that.

Oh, and I do sometimes want an explicit apology, as well as an explanation . To me, it's an acknowledgement of my feelings, and I associate apologies with empathy and am still working on accepting that DH wasn't brought up to apologise for anything ever, and even though we're both adults sometimes it's hard to behave differently to how we were raised

Dun1 my cynicism about apologies (about why people want them and about anything but a spontanious apology being tactical or forced/ the result of emotional blackmail) is also partly due to how I was raised - being told to apologise when parents had no idea what had even gone on, but just wanted the quickest possible exit from any conflict or disagreement (default was whoever didn't turn on crocodile tears when caught had to say sorry, no interest at all in who had done the damage or caused the argument or hurt who).. Apologies are rarely about empathy, they arre about one upmanship and papering over cracks, avoiding discussing real causes of problems, and pandering to attention seeking drama llamas - not always, but iften.

Totally agree if you are sorry you say sorry, it does the explaining for you.

The other day DH apologised by saying "I'm sorry you were wrong last night".