to think thats schools should not give free trips away for 100% attendance

[RosesandRugby]

Just cross really that my DS was off school following an accident at school where he lost several days off due to concussion. Before this he had always had 100% attendance (4 whole years) and they previously just gave out certificates at the end of term with a badge. This year the school have paid for a day trip (theme park) complete with meal out for those with 100% attendance but they wont be able to do it next year because it was only due to a large donation by a local business that has allowed them to do it this time.

OK so im cross that my child has missed out but still, a day trip ! And before anyone goes on about rewarding good attendance etc as an adult you would just get paid your normal salary which would be reduced if you took time off......you wouldn't get extra for turning up to work 100% of the time !

stomps off to hide somewhere cool

YANBU. There is a story in the paper today about a girl who has been banned from joining in a special trip for 100% attendance as she had one day off this year for her Mum's funeral.

Personally I believe the whole certificate thing is stupid. Whatever it is for there are some kids who are never, ever going to get it. So either we arrange it so that some kids get certificates for things that they are good at, (and others couldn't ever be), or we don't.

(I say that as one with a DD who won everything: sports trophies, handwriting competitions, class representative elections, story competitions and a DS who is dyspraxic and who has never, ever won anything; not a certificate, not a place on a sports team, not a competition or anything EVER.)

Giles I don't think it is that - don't you sometimes want to just stay in bed/in front of the tv/go for a walk instead of going to work? It's the same with kids and school. And some kids give in to the impulse often enough to affect their education. We need to stop this and create a culture of attendance. That's what schools are aiming to do with rewarding attendance.

Icimoi I see what you are saying and understand the issues here, really I do. I am concerned about some of the children I see who are disadvantaged in many, many ways but are physically healthy. 100% attendance is something they can achieve and control. Rewarding it is good for them. It's really difficult.

sashh personal targets might be the way forward.

cardibach this is primary school. Most children in primary school have no control over their attendance / lateness etc. If we were talking about secondary school children it would be a different thread.

"don't you sometimes want to just stay in bed/in front of the tv/go for a walk instead of going to work? It's the same with kids and school. And some kids give in to the impulse often enough to affect their education."

This you see. For a 16yo, yes. For a 5yo, no. It's on the parents, not the child.

I've never experienced anything like this at our school but I see it a lot on here, and I think it's just shocking! How, how in the hell can it be good for kids who have to have time off sick to see others getting rewarded for what is simply luck? So you go through being ill or injured, then you get punished. Even worse if you have a chronic condition. It's absolutely vile and I can't believe it's allowed.

And on top of that, it encourages parents and kids to send them/go into school when they really shouldn't, and spread illnesses that could really adversely affect someone.

I see it as simply normal that a school-age child will occasionally get flu, chickenpox or a broken arm etc. Surely normal, totally reasonable attendance is 90-something %, not 100%.

I don't really understand what the fuss is about (although a bike as a prize is a bit ott). In my child's school a tiny handful of children get a 100% attendance certificate, if your child doesn't get one they are in the majority. Do you feel equally aggrieved if some children are brought up on stage and given a certificate for writing or maths work?

I know that much. but my no means all, of attendance is down to luck, but so it being born clever or athletic build, so is winning the raffle and the school fete. Let them have their certificate and be happy for them, they might not have one for anything else.

Oh and I do find it a little bizarre that not getting a certificate = being punished.

I'm OK with a certificate that says 100% attendance, because that's simply a statement of fact. I don't think a fuss about attendance is helpful so I wouldn't bother, but I wouldn't be up in arms about this.

What really gets me is how the poor kids must feel who see others getting an exciting reward when they have missed school through asthma, an accidental injury, chronic health needs etc. That must really hurt. My DS has to have hospital dental appointments for example and it's not because of failure to look after his teeth, it's a different issue beyond his/our control. Luckily there's none of this crap at our school but if there was - he would be within his rights to be very upset at the gross unfairness.

Alienating, esxcluding and upsetting children who already have an issue to deal with can't be good for morale and school cohesion surely?

Yeah they don't do attendance certs at our school either which is good.

Ken you can find things to reward all children about. Attendance is a crap one though as it's totally out of their control.

At our school they do weekly things in class and I know that they make sure all the children have one. DD2 got a sticker for "smiling a lot" so it's not hard!

End of term certs surely go to a handful of children for exceptional effort which seems reasonable to me as well. Clearly not everyone can be exceptional and that is fine. A perfectly reasonable lesson to learn, as long as hard work, effort, good results are encouraged and rewarded throughout the time.

Rewarding someone for something they have no control over is pointless. Sure people are born more likely to be better at maths or running but they still have to work at it, practice and so on. A child with a propensity to maths won't win anything if they don't listen in the lessons and never try and aren't interested.

I really do feel this is insult to injury, the more I think about it.

Seven I was responding to/trying to find a way round the issue of discriminating against children with a chronic condition - primary or secondary makes no difference to that. I agree with you that at primary school it is really a certificate for parents and a bit pointless. Also, children who get 100% attendance have worked at it - it is an achievement even if you are blessed with good health. It takes determination to never give in to a bit of a headache or a bit of a sore throat and rock up every day when you know most of your friends have had odd days off for nothing in particular. Again, this applies to secondary, not primary.
Kendodd yes - it is an issue that some pupils can never get this certificate, but it isn't a punishment.

DD1 has come home the last 2 terms with 100% attendance certificates for each term. She was 2 days short of the year being 100% attendance.

I just can't and don't get worked up about prizes for attendance i didn't win a prize ever, throughout my entire school life, for anything.

It hasn't harmed me twitch twitch

They're not punishing kids that got sick, they're rewarding ones that attended school everyday. Stop thinking of it like that.

The kids went to school instead of staying home sick (and let's face most kids staying home would be fine a few hours after they got to school).

That mentality is just as silly as saying that kids with LD's are getting punished because getting a reading certificate is really out of their control. They're not getting punished, good readers are getting rewarded. No to be cynical, but if you're good at something, you don't really have to work hard at it, like an average student does. So they're getting rewarded for being naturally gifted (which is something they have no control over). This is coming from someone that constantly got reading awards. I did not have to work as hard for an A, as an average reader had to work for a B. It is not hard work they are rewarding, but natural talent.

That said, life's not fair and it never will be. Some people will naturally have more advantages. You just have to work with the cards you got.

Really, as parents you should be taking your child out to lunch or somewhere nice as a reward for making it through the year and doing their best.

The question isn't how we see it, but how a child sees it. It most definitely would look like a punishment to some. And also, you might get a certificate for being good at maths but AFAIK you don't get a day trip and lunch like in the OP.

My daughter had 100% attendance in the past school year but actually it was no effort for her at all. She didn't make a special effort to go to school, because she wouldn't dream of getting up in the morning and saying 'I don't want to go today', partly because she likes school ok, and partly because she was incredibly lucky and never felt ill. So she wasn't pushing herself to not 'give in' to illness or whatever, she just wasn't ill.

Also, my blood runs cold at the thought of a whole year awards, particularly for older children. I was quite ill around the age of 14/15 and missed the equivalent of an entire term of school. It was hard enough to maintain friendships (who wants to be friends with the person who is never there to sit beside?) but if my wider year group saw me as to blame for preventing them from getting an award, or recognition, it would have been even more unbearable.

I generally don't agree with school attendance certificates due to all the reasons given above- and I think that if a child is ill then they are ill. A little thought experiment though, I wonder whether an incentive to parents not to be late in the morning would work. Maybe entering the parents/family into a prize draw if they got their children to school on time every day (with an automatic entry or personalised target if your child has SN which means that lateness is inevitable sometimes)- now that generally is something that parents and children have control over. Yes we would have missed it once for nits but generally lateness is avoidable even if absence isn't.

That ignores the fact that often absence is avoidable though, that I assume is the whole point behind the certificates, to reduce avoidable absences.

It's so wrong on many levels and luckily doesn't happen in my part of the country.

Although I was at a theme park this week and couldn't get moving for kids on a trip

I bet the parents of medically fragile or even ones who have some sort of compromised immunity just love that some kids make an effort to go in with a headache or a sore throat. I have two kids with asthma, one it doesn't matter to, the other often ended up in hospital with oxygen and on prednisone because he caught a stupid fluey cold thing over and over and over again. Yeah I'd be pissed if your kid worked hard to come in when they didn't feel great and my kid ends up in A&E and yours gets a fricking certificate.

I like the personalised targets and I don't think sickness should count if diagnosed by a Dr (which our schools require after three days).

I once had a certificate of "healthy lifestyle" in primary, equal to 100% attendance. Only once. You can't help it if you catch a flue.

I don't like attendance certificates, but they only really came in when OFSTED started to look at attendance and mark a school down if it was poor. So perhaps that ought to go as a criteria. Or authorised absences shouldn't be included in the 'days off'