To wonder if it matters if a mother doesn't bond with her baby, if baby is loved by grandparents etc?

[Acunningruse]

wordy title.

A very good friend of 12 years had her baby a year ago. The baby was not exactly planned, but friend and her DH weren't using contraception as she had previously been told she was unlikely to get pregnant due to health issues. Friend had a difficult pregnancy due to health problems but baby was born fine.

When baby was born friend was very detached from her preferring others to feed, change, deal with baby etc. From the start friend made lots of negative comments about baby how they can't do x,y or z (eg go out, go away for weekends) because of being tied down with baby. Baby was in own room on a different floor from 8 weeks old and sleeps through every night so its not from tiredness IYSWIM?

Friend didn't enjoy maternity leave at all and unfortunately I have now moved away (2.5 hours drive) so I can't see her as often as I would like it's about once a month. Every time we do see her she says she is unhappy and can't wait to go back to work (next month). My friend's mum and dad have baby every Saturday morning, and baby sleeps over every Sunday night and her and her DH also have a week's holiday booked on their own next month. They have also had a few weekends away. I am not judging this at all am just illustrating that my friend does have a lot of time off so it's not like she;s not getting a break.

I have talked to my friend and gently suggested seeing drs or health visitor etc to have a chat about how she is feeling. Last time I raised it she agreed that she needs to do something as she feels very detached for the baby, doesn't miss her when she's not with her. But her DH talked her out of it by saying my friend should wait to see how she is when she returns to work part-time next month.

I am struggling with this as I just feel so sad for my friend- she is not happy at all, so different from the happy and bubbly person she used to be. And so sad for the gorgeous little girl that her mum doesn't get any joy from being with her. I can't stop thinking about it to be honest, I feel helpless though, what can I do other than trying to get her to see dr? But then, if child is well cared for physically, and has doting grandparents, does it really matter if her mum is detached from her? It's completely different from my own experience of motherhood but does that make it wrong?

Post-natal depression doesn't have to be dramatic, it's exactly that flat affect, lack of caring and engagement that can make it so horrible for some people.

In terms of whether it affects the baby, the research doesn't stack up so great for PND however there is evidence that having one loving connection/role-model really does make a difference, even if it isn't the mother. However, given that in this case, the mother does most of the care in the week, it's not great at all. My husband was brought up by a distant/detached mother and it does cause problems, it's easy to feel unwanted and unloved, even if others like grandparents adore you.

The good news is there is time to fix this and if she's honest with the GP and gets to access the right services, there's lots that can be done. What might really work for her is to learn to play with her child- fake it til you make it, so sitting for 20 minutes really playing and interacting even if she doesn't feel like it. Over time you can learn to bond and learn to positively interact even if you don't feel like it initially. Of course there are other options- medication, her talking about it through counselling. But this is fixable and that's what I would tell her.

I am of the belief that a prolonged detachment from a child during their formative years Will cause emotional problems later in life. I see it within my own family so to me it's quite obvious. I think it's great the childs physical needs are being met and has loving grandparents but I'm not sure that is enough. my niece spends her week between four different houses and has done since a newborn. she never went through separation anxiety with her parents but is recently displaying it with my parents. I find that really sad to honest.

I know too many people who have a baby and believe the baby needs to fit into their lives whereas I believe we need to fit into the baby's. of course everyone deserves a break and a night out but if your life is the same post baby as pre baby then something has to give.

Agree mommy2ash DD1 has a friend who had a baby "for her partner" and has been quite detached from her. she herself dislikes her own mother and is continuing the circle it's so sad.

It's thinking about the baby as a person with feelings that is natural to most of us but some find it difficult.

If the mother is the primary caregiver, then yes, it is a problem. I had PND after DD was born and I was told by the psychiatrist that even though the dangers of taking anti depressants while breastfeeding isn't fully known, the effect that untreated PND has on babies and on the mother-child relationship is considered so significant that that they will prescribe ADs to breastfeeding mothers regardless of the potential risk.

My own mother is quite detached from me and it has affected me very badly.

But then, if child is well cared for physically, and has doting grandparents, does it really matter if her mum is detached from her? It's completely different from my own experience of motherhood but does that make it wrong?

Yes it does matter. My mother didn't want me, was persuaded to have me by my father & her brothers, all reassuring her that she would love me the same as she my older siblings.

She didn't. She was very detached from me, but made sure I was looked after well (food, bed, clean clothes etc).

And yes, it mattered to my life. I often wonder what people see in me, because my own mother couldn't love me, so why do other people?

I was raised in the UK & I live in Australia. I have friends in the UK wanting me to go home, and friends here wanting me to stay, I don't understand why any of them want me around. And I am 40, my self worth is often so low that I don't why my dh loves me.

She needs to speak to her GP or health visitor about post natal depression. It's a shame that she's missing out on so much and yes the baby will pick up on it. Your parents are the baseline for lots of things, future relationships, inner voice, etc.

What about if she could take a less active role, what about her partner being SAHD etc?

differentname have you looked at hypnosis to help your low self esteem? because you are loveable of course;all your friends and dh are showing you that you are . i lost 3 stone with Paul mckenna and he has a book called How to be happy, it might help you .

Yes, I think it matters very much if your main caregiver is detached. It will effect whether the baby forms a secure attachment to them, and if it doesn't it will effect her emotional development and future relationships, even into adulthood.

Thank you for your responses. I am so sorry to hear of your own experiences which confirms my worst fears- that it does matter. I don't know what to do though, when I have suggested 5 or 6 times now over the course of 11 months that perhaps she should talk to a professional and each time it has been met with either 'oh I'm sure things will get better soon' or saying she will go then it never happens.

It's sad but I don't know if she could actually be described as the primary caregiver even whilst on maternity leave, as her Mum has the baby so much. her DH works shift so often when he is off my friend will do her own thing or do jobs while he minds baby. TBH I am surprised that she has chosen to go part time, as she is so keen to go back to work and has not enjoyed mat leave. I don't know if maybe because it is because everyone else we know (me included) with a young child works part time.

I think from my perspective the situation is getting worse as all the things I thought would help the bonding process (baby becoming more interactive, doing funny things etc) don't seem to have helped indeed my friend seems to find this worse as previously baby could be taken places and friend could get on with things interrupted as baby was quiet but now baby is mobile its not easy. Also I feel like the older baby gets the window of opportunity to fix it is closing.

What to do though? I am so sad for everyone involved.

Can you contact the HV and say you are worried about your friend. Are there some well rated books on amazon about how to bond

I was just going to suggest the same, could you contact her local health visitor and just say you're concerned about a friend who may have PND?

It might not be, it may just be the way she is? Which is terribly sad, it's strange the husband hasn't picked up on it more. Is he loving towards the baby?

All the child psychology I did as part of teaching degree suggests devestating effects psychologically, socially, milestone wise etc for a child who does not have an "attachement bond" with their main care giver. Its not too late to fix tho. My own experience with my mother totally bears this theory out. She was distant, critical, witholding, endlessly negative, hated motherhood so ignored me & focused on cleaning and decor which were the bits she did like. I could go on , but basically I didnt have the 'anchor' of unconditional love - and its affected every part of my life.

Please get your friend help, quickest would be urgent referral by her GP i would think or a private counsellor even quicker. Even if she 'isnt motherly' as other posters suggest, she needs to know that babies/children have emotional needs and her babies needs arent being met which could have consequences later. She might even find she can bond after all and begin to enjoy mothering.

Of course it does matter. Mother doesn't even have to be the primary caregiver. If the mother is around, but someone else is consistently looking after the child, that child will start questioning why she has never been her (primary) caregiver, why she couldn't be bothered with her own child. Children are not stupid, when they are small they feel things on an intuitive level. And eventually they become adults who can put two and two together and realise that something was wrong with their relationship with their mother from the beginning.
I am not entirely convinced that it has to be a case of PND. Probably it would be a better and easier option because it can be treated. But there ARE people who just...don't like their children and there's probably no treatment for that. It's so very sad.

Im very detached from my kids but am trying to sort it out as i know how my parents detachment from me has affected me later on in life. Obviously I love my kids and always make sure they're looked after ,clean ,well fed ,get toys ,clothes from me etc... BUT I'm not there emotionally for them. I think I have had postnatal with both my children which hasn't helped at all and can't bring myself to actually sit and play with my children or even just sit with them and listen to them ,one on one. Luckily my children have their father who's very attentive to them and their grandparents ,my parents.

ppeatfruit Thank you!

Thankfully, with a very wonderful dh I cope. He & my girls boost me up & help no end, and it is only times I doubt my worth.

I do things that make me feel better, but it does all centre around what I can give to someone (my mum only ever seemed happy with me when I doing something for her/giving her something) but I will certainly look into that book recommendation. Thank you!

'Even if she 'isnt motherly' as other posters suggest, she needs to know that babies/children have emotional needs and her babies needs arent being met which could have consequences later.'

Completely agree with this. She needs to know that the baby needs responsive care, needs to be talked to, played with, interacted with, sung to etc. How she is experiencing motherhood is a separate issue to what her baby desperately needs in terms of emotional development. This issue will not magically resolve itself.
Like other posters, my mother's care was inconsistent and she was emotionally abusive - I have struggled massively with depression and anxiety all my life and have been in abusive relationships myself as an adult.
OP, you say that your friend's mum has the baby a lot - is she functioning as the baby's main carer to all purposes? The baby needs a main carer to bond with, but this doesn't have to be mum.

'But there ARE people who just...don't like their children and there's probably no treatment for that'

Absolutely agree with this and have no idea what the answer is, apart from travelling back in time and not becoming a parent in the first place

Sadly it makes a huge difference and can lead to childhood attachment disorder. I am bringing up my 4 grandchildren and one of the girls is very different to the others and has huge difficulties that affect her in her daily life. It is no coincidence that this is the one who her mum had problems bonding with and allowed her partners sister (who was about 14 at the time) have much of her care for days at a time for her first 18 months or so. There was childhood neglect involved for all three of the older children but this is the only one who has the problems to this extent. We are having to learn how to give her the tools she needs to grow into a healthy and well adjusted child and it is bloody hard work. I really worry about how her adult life will pan out if we cannot give her what she needs at 11, I do believe we have done all the right things for the past 5 years but it is now reaching a new level as she gets older.

I have to say I tend to agree with her dh and wait to see what happens after she returns to work. It may be that she feels better having a bit of adult company and maybe more positive feedback than you get from a baby at that age :)

Certainly if things don't improve quickly then suggest more help ?

Some people don't cope well or bond in the early stages but as babies develop their own little personalities that can change.

I can see why you're concerned but it may well be that the pt work helps a fair bit. Also, sounds like the other family being involved is a good thing here, so perhaps your friend and her dh do understand that they're not coping that well, otherwise her mum wouldn't be so involved. some people prefer toddlers to babies - I found it so much more fun when my dd could do things with me and talk. I think there's no reason for excessive pessimism, this baby seems to have several people that care, even if your friend isn't finding it all delightful.

Exactly, Lotta :(. It's very sad for both parties, but it's not children who made the decision to be born, so I am of an opinion that it's them who suffer more than a parent trapped in a role s/he doesn't like. And yes, going back in time would be the only solution to prevent the lifelong heartache.

I think in these situations it is vital to have a strong bond with the father so that the child has that anchor in her life. It will probably help DD while growing up, but I am afraid the time will inevitably come when she will start asking where her mother was in all that. This usually happens when people with an emotionally distant parent grow up and become parents themselves. Then they realise that what they had in the childhood was not "normal" and that every child deserves better.

I agree Buba, the child has absolutely no choice in this, the parent actually does, however hard it is

I know this is a parenting website but I really despair when I see posts from people on here who are seriously ambivalent about parenthood being encouraged to 'go for it' and 'no-one ever regrets having children'. If people are considering becoming parents but have huge reservations about it, they should be encouraged to listen hard to those reservations IMO. They may still make the decision to go ahead with it but its a time for thoughtfulness and treading carefully, not for being encouraged to follow the herd. Gut feelings are there for a reason.

I know none of that is helpful to this poor woman but just wanted to put it out there.

I totally agree Lottapianos I may be being controversial but I also think that it isn't a 'right' to have a child, it's a responsibility that should be taken very seriously indeed.

I think that's highly controversial ppeatfruit, but I think its also highly true Some parents don't seem to be able to see past what they want out of the experience. I think really genuinely being able to put your child's/baby's needs first is much rarer than we think

diferentname You're very welcome good luck

Yes Lottapianos there's soo much more to parenthood than buying pretty clothes etc. A lot of people seem to get blinded by optimism; it's like buying an unsuitable house.