To wonder why some atheists are so obsessed with being atheist?

[Fanfeckintastic]

I say this as an atheist myself, so many people seem obsessed with "not believing"! I don't mean just being vocal in their disgust at the Catholic church etc (completely understandable) I mean Ricky Gervais for example, somehow I have "liked" him on Facebook and he never stops posting skeptic stuff.

Why do non believers put so much effort and thought into "not believing"

On a side note, I'm in Ireland and sometimes get very pissed off with how much control the church still has, it sickens me actually. But I'm talking about just atheists almost making a hobby of being atheists?

AIBU in my observation?

Um yeah, the 'proper historical, societal and cultural roots' of anti-semitism in Europe were entirely based in Christian persecution of the Jews as 'Christ killers'. All the historical, societal and cultural issues stemmed from that, were created by that. The 'tragic hatred' of the Jews was always and absolutely caused by religious bollocks. It was everything about their religion that was used to create and excuse and encourage hatred and persecution against them. All the other factors you mention stemmed from religion too. There was (is) not any part of anti-semitism that does not stem from religion; that of the oppressor or the oppressed.

AND even if you are correct (you're not), that still does not make Nazis atheists, FFS.

Ah, I have checked my textbooks, and 5% of the Nazi party had 'no identifiable religion'. So I was wrong that everyone had to be a Christian to join. Hardly makes them an Atheist regime, does it, though?

Tanith you said. My experience is that atheists are more likely to do this, but that is only my own experience.

I was going by what you said. If you can't think of any time that an atheist did this to you then I'd glad I questioned it.

The tragic hatred of Judaism over the centuries is far more complicated than "you worship a different god to me."

Well, it would be. Christians and Jews do not worship a different God. They are Abrahamic religions. However, to grossly simplify 2000 years of people shouting at each other, Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God, and Jews think he was a Jew who lived a long time ago. As a result of the gospels' description of the events that led up to his crucifixion, a sickening amount of people through the ages have held all Jews responsible for Jesus' death and have persecuted them for it.

The above is emboldened, because it is the key thing. There are other factors, but those can be traced back to the effects of blaming Jews for killing Jesus.

You are entitled to be annoyed about it as I'm entitled to be annoyed about special pleading for those with religious beliefs. I am fully aware the law requires for example that accommodation has to be made for religious beliefs in the workplace. I don't agree that is fair but so be it.

I get very annoyed by the Catholic Church attempting to dictate policy to the Scottish government.

I also get annoyed that some religious people assume I haven't thought long and hard about why I'm an atheist.

I can't imagine hating Jews without basing it on religion. I mean why would you care? The only difference between myself and the average Jewish person is their religion. Some might follow a different football team and some might prefer different soap operas. The only thing they have in common is their religion and I don't have one. I am color blind where religion is concerned. I'm sure the differences mean a lot to the believers, but from the outside they are trivial.

A politician might pretend to be pro or anti semitic to get votes, but he wouldn't really care deep down, it would just be a ploy.

So the only way to really hate them, to feel that your life is somehow harmed by their mere existence, to lie awake depressed or angry that Jewish people are allowed to exist, is to be religious.

Any belief system which says it is superior to another's is cause for trouble - that includes atheism.
What's wrong with saying we don't really know?
Dh says I get splinters from sitting on the fence but if everyone in the world was more agnostic it would certainly be a more peaceful place.

Bodicea, I know that God doesn't exist. Not a shred of evidence behind the notion, and it's adsurdly illogical and childish in the extreme. I know it like I know that fairies don't exist and that the moon is not made of cheese. Neither of those beliefs are any less ridiculous than the idea of a deity. When there is zero proof or logic for anything, I will say conclusively that I know it doesn't exist.

Someone give me even 1% of proof for supernatural hokum, and I will say that I don't really know.

Luckily atheism isn't a belief system. In fact it's people saying "we don't really know.. so stop pretending that you do and using it for your own agenda"

An important distinction that has to be explained once every few weeks is this:

"There could be an airy fairy something outside of the universe that has no contact with anything and that something could be called god for want of a better word"

Yes, so that's why we can't say that 'god' doesn't exist.

On the other hand your particular god that makes hurricanes kill gay people and will heal any disease as long as it's something that doesn't show and no one is looking can be shown to be untrue.

Actually atheism is a type of belief system - you categorically believe there is no god - and has been a factor in a lot of violence across history.
Agnostics say you don't really know.

Bodicea. I see why you think that, but you are mistaken.

You see the words have drifted a bit in their meaning. I know an agnostic here on MN who believes devoutly in god. They are agnostic only in that they are not sure of the exact details of god's plan.

Some people think agnostic means "err I dunno what I think"

So we stopped using that word.

Certainly someone who believed devoutly that your god didn't exist would be a believer. In fact that's true of Hindus and Muslims.

I am an atheist in the sense that I do not 'believe' in anything. I know some things and if I don't know then I say I don't know. I don't make it up.

You may be an atheist too in the matter of Fairies, Odin, Brownies and so on. Or if you are a devout Christian you might reject them because your god says so in which case that's a belief.

Luckily atheism isn't a belief system. In fact it's people saying "we don't really know.. so stop pretending that you do and using it for your own agenda"

Yes it is. I am not saying "I don't really know" I believe there is no god. I don't believe in an afterlife other than we all live on by way of our children and by the effects our words and deeds have on our world. I may be wrong but my belief is as firm as that of any religious person in her or his gods.

Agnostic means believing it is not possible to know.

So going back to the original question, yes, YABU to wonder why atheists are obsessed with being atheist. Do you wonder why Christians are obsessed with Jesus?

I dislike evangelist atheists as much as I dislike evangelist christians but its the nature of their getting up in my grill about telling me what to think that I dislike. Not the obsession of their choice.

I am an atheist. I don't believe there is a god in the same way that I don't believe there are fairies, unicorns or monsters under my bed. Why should I say "I don't really know" when I do?

It's a minor quibble but it grates when I hear someone talking about something which "brings together people of all faiths" when what they really mean is it unites us in our common humanity.

At least I think that is what is meant unless (a) the speaker accepts atheism as a faith (not very likely) or (b)the speaker did mean to exclude us.

devil, people can't be evangelical Atheists because the word evangelical specifically pertains to the level of Christian faith one has. It can't be applied to any other religion or lack of religious belief.

Seriously? On a night when Israel and Palestine are once again attempting to bomb the living shit out of each other (one side with far more devastating effectiveness than the other)... it's atheists who are getting your back up?

Here's a grip.

devil "I dislike evangelist atheists as much as I dislike evangelist christians but its the nature of their getting up in my grill about telling me what to think that I dislike."

I actually don't mind that. Christians reckon that all sorts of appalling things will happen to you after you die if you don't accept certain notions - it's their strongly held belief - so warning you seems only fair. I do not agree they are correct in their thinking, but what they are doing makes total sense from their POV.

What gets me is the whining. "The only values it's not PC to hold in this country are Christian values!" or "Christians are being persecuted in the UK" or "Christian values should be respected, this is after all a Christian country!" or going on about Revelation and muttering darkly that everything that happens in world politics is a sign.

Somebody looks a bit askance at someone with a cross necklace and it is OMG NEW WAVE OF CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION. Somebody else says to a Christian "Look, I really disagree with you there" and it's as if they'd just grabbed the Christian, tied them to a stake and got the lighter out. Somebody points out that Revelation may not be, ahem, an accurate predictor of events to come, and NOT ONLY WILL YOU BE SORRY WHEN YOU ARE BURNING IN A LAKE OF FIRE PEOPLE FAR MORE INTELLIGENT THAN YOU HAVE PROVED IT IS ALL TRUE.

I know why this mindset exists, but it is deeply irritating to many non-Christians. If atheists say anything about it they are "hating Christians" and "being aggressive". Christians appear to have the most easily damaged feelings of anyone ever.

It irritates me when Christians claim they are persecuted because they aren't, for example, granted special privileges in the workplace.

There are people in some parts of the world being killed for being of the wrong religion and here people are banging on about not being able to wear a certain piece of jewellery at work.

The point about the Nazis, which I know is a side argument and far too detailed to go into on a thread like this, is the way people are trying to ascribe religion to everything. Comforting, no doubt, simplistic.

It doesn't help anyone, religious or atheist, to start talking in such black and white terms and trying to ascribe all blame to the other side.

Just on this thread alone:

OfaFrenchMind Thu 17-Jul-14 10:49:05 - ^Nazism: created by atheists, for a millenium of good atheist paradise (Hilter and his cronies despised Christianism).*

Then, later, Oxford arguing for Nazis being Christian.

It's like some people have a knee-jerk reaction: I am religious, they are evil so they must be atheist; I am atheist, they are evil so they must be religious.

Not helpful or truthful at all.

I don't witness Atheists stood in the street preaching to everyone about their beliefs.

I don't see Atheists banging on my door trying their upmost hardest to get me to convert.

Atheists don't mutilate children's genitalia.

Atheists aren't the reason for most of the wars in the history of the world.

It isn't atheists who preach that homosexuality is evil.

Atheism is the only belief that can actually be proven.

Atheists don't murder people for not being the correct religion or torture them for committing a so called 'sin' such as stealing to eat because you're starving.

Atheists don't believe contraception is a sin and therefore haven't essentially caused HIV on a massive scale.

Sure, Atheists could just stand by and let everyone believe what they want but what did apathy ever achieve?

Thurlow, I think you need to see someone. That the Nazis were overwhelmingly Christian is a FACT, not an idea that
I, or other Atheists, are trying to promote to win our case. Germany was a deeply religious country at the time, and the anti-semitism of the era was based entirely in the obsessive christian hatred of Jews that had become a cultural norm throughout Europe.

Germany has never said anything other than the Nazis were Christians. Historical scholars (apart from sick loon like David Irving) have never said anything else. All the factual documents from the time prove it. All the personal writing such as diaries and letters used in historical research about the time reveal the religion behind Nazism. So yes, it IS truthful of me to, um, y'know - tell the truth.

I don't know what is going on for you that you feel a need to dispute proven facts, facts that aren't even contested or questioned because they are the simple facts. Very worrying indeed.

Actually, I don't think even David Irving denies that the Nazis were Christians!