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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder whether it is discriminatory to insist on women wearing heels to work?

137 replies

Barbierella · 14/07/2014 19:34

Am I wrong in thinking some professions insist on women wearing heeled shoes to work, such as airlines?

Bearing in mind heeled shoes are known to cause pain and long term damage to feet this is a very unreasonable request. And if men are not required to wear them then women should not either.

OP posts:
laracroft2001 · 15/07/2014 13:29

And I genuinely do not feel I 'suffer' or am being 'objectified' by wearing heels.

Barbierella · 15/07/2014 13:45

Suzannewithaplan

This is exactly the point.

The irony that SOME women in this country think that the burqa limits women's freedom of movement and is forced upon women by men but agree with uniform enforced high heels is not lost on me.

I think we as women should stand up to the idea of requiring women to HAVE to wear high heels not facilitate it.

OP posts:
Barbierella · 15/07/2014 13:52

Laracroft

How is it NOT discriminatory to ask only one gender to wear foot wear that causes them damage?

It is not a case of women needing to tell you they are suffering, one gender should not be put at risk of injury, surely you can see that?

Men are not being out at risk of injury or long term damage as a result of their uniform, women are. It is irrelevant whether they choose to complain.

OP posts:
laracroft2001 · 15/07/2014 15:55

I do see your point to a degree, but unless there is evidence of a huge % of people who have worked in heels suffering then I would struggle to call it a health and safety issue.

We discuss grooming policy at interview stage so candidates are very clear about expectation before they join. They then chose whether or not they are comfortable with that.
As mentioned if they have a doctors note/genuine medical condition then we allow structured flats.

I suppose anything these days can be labeled discriminatory- however the industry is probably one of the least discriminating industries employing males, females, a variety of ages, sizes, nationalities etc etc

We also tell men to keep their hair short which we don't tell women to do. (we specify must be clean, in good condition and tidy but not a length or a style. Some brands specify must be worn in a bun which is damaging to hair Shock)

Barbierella · 15/07/2014 16:08

Why does it have to be a huge percentage to have long term problems to make it wrong?
The arguments about men having shirt hair or women's hair being damaged are just moving away from the point.
And no not everything could be deemed as discriminatory.

OP posts:
HouseOfBamboo · 15/07/2014 16:11

From the TUC's 'Working feet and footwear - Health and safety at work guidance'

www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/footwear.pdf

"Heel – should have a broad base and be no higher than 4cm. If worn for long stretches they should be no more than 2cm in height."

"Dress code
In many occupations, in particular where staff deal with the public, employers enforce a dress code that includes footwear. Sometimes this code prevents staff from wearing comfortable and sensible shoes and instead insists they wear slip-ons or inappropriate heels. This can apply particularly to women. Apart from being extremely sexist, these policies can lead to long-term foot problems. Safety representatives should ensure that dress codes do not prevent people from wearing comfortable, healthy footwear."

laracroft2001 · 15/07/2014 16:12

Because you stated 'how is not discriminatory to insist women wear something which has long term damage to their health'

I would suggest if there was a large % of people who ended up with long term health issues you would be correct. However my experience does not reflect this therefore I disagree with you.

I am sure someone has experienced the opposite to me who would agree with you.

And ref the mens hair being cut short- in theory that would be discriminatory towards men as we have not asked women to have short hair.

laracroft2001 · 15/07/2014 16:13

And I'll retract my 'huge %' comment to a 'reasonable %'

OnlyLovers · 15/07/2014 16:13

lara, 'I suppose anything these days can be labeled discriminatory'

Well, no, not anything, but something that impacts one group of people and not another IS clearly discriminatory.

The short-hair rule for men is discriminatory too, I'd say, as women are allowed short or long hair. If women had to have long hair and men short then that rule would be unfair on both genders, and somewhat old-fashioned in its assumption, but not discriminatory or sexist I don't think.

I appreciate that your company makes these policies clear and that it does allow flat shoes with a doctor's note (although I think that's pretty Hmm in itself. I've no particular problem with your company specifically from what you've told us; or, rather, the problem I have is that I think this is symptomatic of a wider attitude –that women look more attractive, or suitable, or smart, or whatever, in a certain height of footwear that comes with discomfort and potential health problems.

I said this before but I'll repeat it: there is no equivalent item of clothing,that I can think of, that is specific to men. That makes it a gender issue, a women's issue, a feminist issue, whatever you want to call it.

laracroft2001 · 15/07/2014 16:15

House of Bamboo - interesting link!

I wonder if HR are aware - (though as pointed out previously this is common in the whole industry and such a grooming policy is in place for many of these multi national companies )

We do however ban open toes, sling backs and slip ons

laracroft2001 · 15/07/2014 16:16

Only lovers - I would agree it is probably more a feminist issue- what can I insist the men wear to level the playing field GrinGrin

kelda · 15/07/2014 16:18

I am shocked that there are still industries that insist on heels for women.

I ahve no problems with my feet, am in a very physical job, but I can barely walk in heels. They hurt and make it difficult to walk quickly.

Not the same at all as asking men to have short hair - having a hair cut does not cause pain or long term physical problems.

Barbierella · 15/07/2014 16:25

Lara

Please do some reading in regard to the long term problems associated with wearing heels.
Just because you don't have problems does not mean that heels do not cause very real problems for many people.
It sounds so dismissive to say it's a feminist issue!!

OP posts:
HouseOfBamboo · 15/07/2014 16:38

www.thespinehealthinstitute.com/news-room/health-blog/how-high-heels-affect-your-body

Apparently even just a 2 inch heel causes a 57% weight shift onto the ball of the foot. Shock

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/07/2014 16:45

RNOH uses 3D scanner to revolutionise treatment o…:

OnlyLovers · 15/07/2014 17:06

Barbierella, sorry, that was me bringing the word 'feminist' into it!

But actually I really think it is. It affects women's equality and quality of life; it does not affect men's.

SpandexBallet · 15/07/2014 17:18

I work in a clinical/retail industry. For a very large company and our induvidual franchise makes us wear heels unless we have a drs note.
I personally like wearing heels, I buy proper ones with good cushioning and support but they look very smart.
The other girls hate wearing heels and it has caused a huge amount of upset within our work.

Our two bosses (both male and of whom neither stick to the company policy for uniform as stipulated by our handbooks) insist that we have to wear heels and that is that. Even someone who had a broken foot was made to go home unpaid when she came in to work with flats and no drs note.
They are very strict and IMO very unfair as the men only have to wear smart shoes but they can still be very comfy.

Our olactual company doesn't stupulate that we have to wear them and we are the only franchise of our company that I know of that insist on it.

It's a frankly sexist and ridiculous rule

Barbierella · 15/07/2014 17:32

Only lovers
Thank you, I see. It was the dismissive tone of Laracroft that irked me.

OP posts:
Suzannewithaplan · 15/07/2014 17:33

interesting video Itsall thanks for posting
Shock @ 'fixed clawing of the toes'

I look forward to shoe design influenced by 3D foot and ankle scanning :o

Suzannewithaplan · 15/07/2014 17:37

I suppose men like to see women in heels because it puts them into a 'lordosis' posture, ie one which signifies sexual receptiveness.

Perhaps it makes your bosses feel as if they have a harem Spandex?

OnlyLovers · 15/07/2014 17:44

Spandex, if it were me with the broken foot I would sue or tribunal them to kingdom come! Surely that's plain illegal, not just stupid and sexist?

Barbierella · 15/07/2014 17:54

SpandexHmm

OP posts:
Suzannewithaplan · 15/07/2014 17:57

I'd be outraged if I were broken-foot girl, but then again if your job and therefore your income is at stake sometimes 'put up and shut up' is the only realistic option?

OnlyLovers · 15/07/2014 18:06

I suppose it depends how much if any legal recourse you might have.

auntjane2 · 15/07/2014 18:06

High heels are dangerous and do cause all sorts of problems in the longer run. This is a health and safety issue, with overtones, yes, I have to agree, of sex discrimination.
The nearest equivalent for men I can imagine is a workplace with moving machinery insisting men wear ties to lean over the machines. What a daft idea!
Might be worth a quiet word with a local Health and Safety Executive office, Spandex?

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