to wonder whether it is discriminatory to insist on women wearing heels to work?

[Barbierella]

Am I wrong in thinking some professions insist on women wearing heeled shoes to work, such as airlines?

Bearing in mind heeled shoes are known to cause pain and long term damage to feet this is a very unreasonable request. And if men are not required to wear them then women should not either.

I am sure it is discriminatory but the example you give, airline steward(ess) have 1000's of applications for each training position. Many people are desperate to do the job, you can fail training for not having full makeup and perfect hair () and many are now employed on insecure temporary contracts. I doubt they get many complaints.

Men and women can have different rules on appearance as long as they're the same level of specificity.

Noodles right, they need to be equivalent smartness. So you can't insist that women wear a skirt suit but men can wear whatever they want. However the point about heels is interesting - I think it would be difficult to defend because there are smart flat shoes and as you say, heels cause mechanical problems.

I always think its unfair to men that suits must be worn yet women get away with 'smart' type gear that often allows for seasonal temperatures .
I could never wear a suit and tie like my husband has to .

NoodleOOdle
But if one requirement has the potential for long term foot damage and pain and the other doesn't surely this is discriminatory?

Oh and heels aren't always bad . My dd has tendon issues , heels help .

I guess it could be, but depends very much on the height of heel etc. If both men and women in the job are required to wear a uniform that conforms to "smart dress" conventions then the only discrimination would be that the company's interpretation of that convention for women is physically damaging (if that is in fact the case). I seem to remember reading that actually a low heel is better than completely flat, especially unsupportive shoes that are completely flat?

X-post times many!

Completely flat shoes are best as funnily enough that is how we are evolved. Wearing heels all the time can cause your calf muscles to shorten meaning you have to wear heels. They also make your pelvis tilt weirdly which fucks up your back. I would never work for a company that requires heels as they are so damaging to your health (in a proven, non woo sort of way)

I would be interested to know if there have been any cases about this.

HermioneWeasley

This is my point, there are smart alternatives. It is also a job that requires hours on the feet.

So if a women and a man had a foot problem (disability) that meant they could not weigh bear on the ball of the foot but could work no problem with flat shoes then the man could do the job but the women wouldn't.
Surely this is discriminatory?

Don't you have a choice though as to whether to apply or not? Unusual to be forced to join a firm. If you choose the firm you accept their codes of conduct. Assuming it was clear from get go.

Quite reasonably (!) the firm could say those feet issues are not a certain. Equally if you wear heels in free time you are happily exacerbating the issue on purpose and how do you know it's not that time that caused the issue as elongates the time in them?

I don't really care tbh. I just hate this yelp of discrimination/how to sue stuff all the time.

Minnie
"Don't you have a choice though as to whether to apply or not? Unusual to be forced to join a firm. If you choose the firm you accept their codes of conduct. Assuming it was clear from get go"

That's like saying that a firm can choose to pay women less and it's ok because you don't have to join!

Seriously!

High heels do cause problems.

What people do after work is up to them, but workplaces should not require staff to put their health at risk hence the smoking ban.

And I guess it is sex discrimination unless men are also required to wear high heels?

I don't think it is the same. I think you feel aggrieved and are equating it the same due to hurt feelings. You asked for opinions. That's mine. We disagree.

Well, if the employee had a condition which was a disability then it would probably be a reasonable adjustment to allow them to wear different shoes to the uniform, so there is a way of addressing that without a sex discrim angle.

Leaving out any disability angle, I think it would end up being the subjective opinion of the tribunal on the day. Some might find that because there are different societal norms for men and women's dress, that heels are the equivalent of polished brogues for men, and therefore it's not discrimination (assuming dress codes for each are equally smart and prescriptive). Another tribunal might find that there are perfectly smart non heeled alternatives for women and so this is discrimination.

I seem to recall a man challenging a short hair rule for men because he had a ponytail and women were allowed long hair/ponytails. If I recall, this was found not to be discrimination as there was a traditional dress code for both sexes.

Hermione
Interesting. However, short hair does not cause men health problems.

I have mild hemiparesis, and would end up flat on my face if I tried to wear heels.

But even aside from the disability angle, I wouldn't want to wear them even if I am circus height. They're uncomfortable and can cause mechanical problems.

I absolutely get what you are saying Barbie. I can't wear heels and that therefore means that I could never be an air stewardess evening if I wanted to be. That is discriminatory.

I think the health angle would be a strong argument to there not being an equivalent male comparator in the dress code.

Is this a hypothetical question, or is it a situation you find yourself in?

Are there any employment lawyers on here?
The way I see it is that heels are not absolutely necessary for women to look smart. In addition, they are not necessary to do the job.

chunderella
Also ballet flats mean you have to scrunch your foot to keep them on as they are so low at the front.

I've recently seen a number of air hostesses in more "sensible" heels. Clearly there is some flexibility if the airline wants to keep you!

I believe they have to wear heels to travel to and from work.

Feet (medical conditions aside) don't need any support, it just weakens them. Barefoot is best, but if you have to wear shoes then as close to barefoot as possible is better:

-Zero drop (ie toes same height as heel)
-No toe spring (often seen on trainers)
-Thin sole so you can feel the ground
-Wide toe box so your toes can splay naturally
-No arch support (supporting arches from underneath breaks them)
-Secure so you are not doing weird things with your toes trying to hold them on.