to think Stephen Fry is a shit

[AgaPanthers]

Apparently he thinks Operation Yewtree is a sham and we need tougher laws against people making up sexual abuse allegations.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/stephen-fry-criticises-operation-yewtree-in-dinner-party-rant-calling-for-tougher-laws-to-deter-false-sex-abuse-allegations-9602686.html

I thought he was supposed to be intelligent? Surely he realises that

You said "nor did he say, as reported" which implies that he didn't say what he was reported to say.

AFAIA there are already laws and punishments for the vanishingly tiny number of people who make false accusations. Although, if you were to read websites like F4J and AVfM, you'd never know that.

Maybe, the CPS doesn't use these punishments because they can't prove or disprove either way, but on balance they decide not to prosecute either side?

He has bi polar and was abused himself, he is probably struggling with all the press articles. He is well meaning and yes if it is false, thing is it is hard to prove abuse in court, doesn't mean it is a flase allegation.

CaptChaos - one person prosecuted in England and Wales every other week. Yes, I suppose that could be classed as 'tiny'. Unless you are that person or a member of their family.

Steven Fry has chosen an exceptionally unfortunate time to air his views considering what was in all the newspapers this morning. I do not think this was an innocent and unhappy coincidence.

That's what, a little over 20 a year? That is tiny. Compared to the number of people who are subjected to sex crimes and nothing happens about it...

This conversation often seems for some people to want to protect a small number of falsely accused people at the cost of scores upon scores of victims. That viewpoint only comes surely from people who believe the rate of false accusations is something other than it is, from a deep seated belief that females are inveterate liars.

What exactly is this thread really about?

I think it's about the idea that to be accused of a sexual crime is so ruinous to your life that the reporting of such crimes should be vilified and the victims of such crimes should be made to feel guilty of exercising their right to complain of their rape/abuse. It's about the idea that those accused of such crimes are victims in the same way that people who are raped/abused are victims. It's about the idea that investigations are 'witch hunts', and that victims have some sort of 'coveted victimhood' status (as suggested by George Will but clearly fairly widely thought) that does not extend to the victimhood of those accused (who have 'ruined lives')

I think it is worth saying that increasingly an accusation of a sexual crime is perceived as a conviction for that crime. The recent Oxford Union situation where speakers were pressured to withdraw simply because the Union president had been arrested - not charged or convicted - for rape, underlines that. Men and women bought before the courts ARE innocent until the jury returns a verdict otherwise. We need to keep remembering that.

"He has bi polar and was abused himself,"

H has bi polar. I would be amazed if he considered himself to have been abused.

Have you read his books?

Haklyut, He said he was, I saw it on TV, as a boy in school.

Fewer false sexual assault/rape accusations made than false burglary ones. I wonder how many of those who falsely accuse of burglary go to court (for the false accusation, they do often end up in court for insurance fraud)?

26 people prosecuted in a year? Compared to how many unreported assaults, do you think? Compared to how many assault/rape cases which never make it to court, do you think?

In the 3 years leading up to 2013, 2.4% of females and 0.4% of males said they had been a victim of a sexual offence. In 2011 there were 4155 reports which the police/cps decided were not crimes. There is a difference between a deliberate false accusation and a person reporting what they believe to be a crime.

Those 26 people are very very wrong and should feel the full force of the law. I would NEVER condone anyone lying about being sexually assaulted or raped, and I would not support anyone who did condone it. However, the number IS vanishingly tiny when compared to the number of sexual assaults which take place.

I have no issue with SF. I wasn't there, so can't be sure of what he said/didn't say. I don't think newspapers would be impartial on this. I do, however, worry about the public perception that there are a lot of false accusations made, whether about famous or 'normal' people. I think it damages cases against those who are being tried for crimes of a sexual nature, whether they are male or female, historic or recent in the minds of juries. I would also suggest that injudicious reporting of this might serve to deter people from coming forward and reporting crimes against them in future.

CaptChaos really very well put.

Ex boarding school boy, who has issues about sex, slams sexually abused boys for implicating his friends.

What a surprise.

Interesting Garlic
I've read his autobiographies. And i have some other insights into daily life for public schoolboys/ boarders, And I have to say I can see how the lines of "normal" experimentation and of abuse become easily blurred. also, the struggles we all face in childhood/ adolescence of bullying and power and control are, I think, quite magnified in a boarding environment.
But I didn't hear what he actually said.

But everything I have read about sexual assault leads me to believe that there has to be a great deal of evidence before anything gets near a court. Presumably the police are not just acting on hearsay.

YANBU. He's a twat. I remember him saying that bipolar is great because it gives you amazing creativity. It was a dangerous statement because suddenly people around me weren't taking the fact that I cared for my dad with BP seriously.

The people I know with bipolar would give up that creativity in an instant to get rid of their bipolar. I don't care what his sexual orientation is, I find him an insufferable twat.

SittingnexttoSanta- did he actually use the word abused? Or did he talk about the sexual experiences he had at school and you applied the z,xs use" word to it?

I applied the word to his sexual experiences as a young child.

Ah. So he didn't. Do you call sexual experimentation between children of the same age or very similar ages abuse?

He used the word rape when referring to an incident of his being, well, raped, at school. His definition was on reflection, not something he realised at the time.

not all people who have been abused will actually say I was sexually abused/raped that puts in the role of victim and many struggle being seen as a victim

it certainly can be classed as abuse if one child is being harmed, is the child harming them an abuser well no as likely they are acting out what has been done to them or what they have seen

Well said Captain Chaos.

Oh dear the old 'you're a homophobe!' attack if you dare criticism a gay person has surfaced:

I DO hope we put the welfare of children before we put possibly being rude about a gay person first.

You know what? I think something is about to break here: I think a lot of gay men (NOT saying Fry here but possibly his friends and acquaintances) are going to be exposed as abusing teenaged boys. It may even appear that these boys were marginally underage, sexually mature and were willing at the time-willing at the point of sexual contact although coerced before it IYSWIM.

Are we just going to brush it in under the carpet and say well gay men do this sort of thing and excuse it?

Which comes first unswerving, blind LGBT allegiance or welfare of kids? I think people will have to decide.

Welfare of kids it is for me. EVERY time. You can stuff the homophobia accusation.

I reported someone to the police for abusing me. They sent an officer straight away to interview me. My abuse was very minor in comparison to what a lot of people experience. It happened a long time ago so the officer taking my statement said it was unlikely action could be taken. However, I was called days later by someone higher up who told me the previous officer was wrong, I could prosecute. They went on to give me a lot of nformation re the law and abuse etc. The impression I got was that I was believed and they were very worried about what my abuser was up to in the present. My abuser was under 16 at some of the time the abuse took place. The policeman on the phone was very clear that it was still an offence. I was believed. At no point did either the officer who visited my home or the one on the phone ever give me the impression that they didn't believe me.
It is so embarressing having to tell people you don't know the details. But in my case I was lucky and I would hate for someone to have been in my position and be treated as a liar. I just don't think people make this up. I don't think it even gets anywhere near investigation without there being a damn good reason.
I am disappointed by Fry's comments and I think he is misguided. People don't lie about this. If it happens, it must be so so rare. It is so frightening and humiliating and victims have a history of already not being believed.