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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to stop dds father having contact tomorrow?

53 replies

powersquawker · 12/07/2014 22:57

Dd is 6, we've been separated since pregnancy. ExH was abusive to me in every way and still uses dd to try and control and manipulate me. He has her eow usually and no more despite me offering.

Six months ago, dd decided she wanted to try a theatre group. This was a pretty big deal as she has ASD. When it came to preparing for the show, she auditioned and was given a part which she was extremely chuffed about. I told exH at the time, as did dd. When the show dates came out it transpired that they fell on dds weekend with him, which I told him and offered to swap to save him having to drive back and forth as he's 25 mins away from the theatre and I'm only 5. He refused to swap, but told dd she could do the show.

Dd has been practising for 3 hours each week since, then 6 hours each week for the past two weeks and has been loving it. Her father decided last week that actually, she couldn't do the show because he didn't want to take her. I offered swapping again and told him how well dd is doing and how much she loves it and wants him to watch. He just said no, despite making it clear there are no other plans.

For the first time ever I made a unilateral decision and said it was unfortunate he wasn't supportive, but that after all the effort she'd put in, dd would be doing the show. I offered that he collect her tomorrow from 9-5 or have her overnight and drop to school. He kicked off massively about the show but ignored the part about tomorrow, despite me asking him to let me know asap. He has form for leaving it until an hour before offered contact to accept/decline as I think he likes the power of keeping dd and I on our toes. I have previously said contact should be arranged at least 48 hours beforehand.

He sent me a text this afternoon saying he'll be collecting dd in the morning. She accepted an invitation for us to go on a day out with her friend yesterday because I figured it had passed the 48 hour window I've previously asked for. I'm torn between feeling bad because if I cancel tomorrow I've cancelled his whole weekend and feeling I need to stand up to him re: the 48 hour thing or he will forever think he can mess dd and I around.

What do you think?

OP posts:

AskBasil · 12/07/2014 23:43

There is a welfare concern Kawliga.

This man doesn't give a shit about how important this show is to this six year old girl with ASD.

She has ASD. She's been practising for ages. This will do her confidence and development the world of good and a decent parent who is capable of putting his child's needs first, would be bending over backwards to ensure that she takes part.

This twat doesn't care. He just doesn't care about her welfare. That is something worth fighting about.

AgentZigzag · 12/07/2014 23:43

Can I ask why you let your DD go round to have contact with him knowing he's so abusive OP?

Do you have a choice over whether he treats her like shit?

It must be a nightmare, and you must have thought about whether it's more important to shield your DD than her having contact with her dad. Is there anything you can do to control how he treats her? Like supervised contact?

kawliga · 12/07/2014 23:45

Sienna, I already said many times that if there's emotional abuse that's absolutely different and she should fight with everything she's got. If there is abuse then the show, rehearsals, 48 hour notice, etc, is all neither here nor there.

AgentZigzag · 12/07/2014 23:47

But he's not doing it because he believes it'll make his DD happy though kawliga.

The OP knows it'll make her unhappy, and he must if we're honest, how crap would you be if you let someone deliberately hurt your DC without batting an eye?

SiennaBlake · 12/07/2014 23:48

Argh. You are still not getting it. The fact he tries to manipulate his ex and his child is the proof enough that there is emotional abuse and manipulation at play here. He's trying to fuck them around for his own benefit. All of your posts are irrelevant as a result going by what you've just said which was exactly the point I was making.

Original poster

powersquawker · 12/07/2014 23:50

He's not actively abusive to her Agent, besides this issue of promising her she could do the show then trying to take it away which I think is just plain cruel. Heis more likely to use her to get to/at me - i.e. Asking if she's seen my mum because he knows mum was abusive to me and we're no contact, keeping her school things so I have the prospect of him dropping in at any point, telling her he works locally so he'll 'pop round and see her' and so on.

OP posts:

AgentZigzag · 12/07/2014 23:57

Using her to get to/at you is abusive IMO, it's not healthy for a parent to be involving their children in trying to get at someone else.

I was really saying about his contact with her because I was wondering how it came about in the first place? Was it from birth? How did you get round the fact that he'd abused you in the past?

Do you feel able to realistically assess how he might affect your DD? You say you're sending your DD to spend time with someone you describe as cruel and abusive and that doesn't sound right to me.

Does the past with your mum affect how you're seeing it?

Does anyone else comment on your DDs relationship with her dad and that it might not be a good one?

Has there ever been any intervention from anyone in 'authority'?

Don't answer any of that if you're not comfortable, but it seems a bit skewed to me and him being her dad doesn't give him the right to treat either of you like this.

ChasedByBees · 12/07/2014 23:58

No, I wouldn't let your DD go this weekend. He should give 48 hours notice. Also trying to stop his DD doing a play which she has invested so much time and energy into just because he can is pretty abusive in itself. Keep records of this. Did he put any of it in writing?

AgentZigzag · 13/07/2014 00:00

At the risk of looking like I was playing games as well, I'd say no because of the lack of 48 hours notice even if it was so she could be in the show.

Original poster

powersquawker · 13/07/2014 00:07

He had minimal contact until she was 4 (and easier) and then it built up slowly to eow. I think she feels loyal to him but knows he doesn't treat her fairly and so is conflicted. I think by making a stand this weekend re: the show and 48 hours notice for tomorrow, he'll be furious and spouting about his rights to his daughter. This may well lead him to carry out his constant threat of taking me to court where I'd ask for CAFCASS to investigate the concerns I have.

OP posts:

Aeroflotgirl · 13/07/2014 00:10

Tough, she is doing the show, it means a lot to her, and she has put in so much effort. The child should be at the centre, at this instence its in the childs' best interests to do the show.

Yes you are gaining control back, you do need to have enough notice, you cannot be planning your life around whether he will show up for contact or not. He did not let you know within the 48 hour notice so tough hopefully next time he will let you know in good time. Op is not saying no to contact, but standing up to her dd and her being messed about and controlled by this man.

kawliga · 13/07/2014 00:13

Sienna, it's possible for someone to get it and still disagree with you.

So, in a legal dispute, if you say 'this wanker keeps messing me around changing the plan at the last minute and not giving me enough notice and made dd miss a show' that's completely different from saying that the father is jeopardizing the welfare of the child.

I can see the point Agent and AskBasil are making, that missing the show is harming this particular child. Harming the child is a good reason to prevent contact. Messing the mother around is just not, I do not think any court will deny contact to a father just because he is messing the mother around and expecting her to chase after him and generally behaving like an overgrown child. He is not on trial for his relationship with the mother.

I think it's important for mothers to separate 'he is messing me around' from 'this is harmful to my child'. I also think 'my child really wanted to go to this show/party/whatever it would have made her so happy' is not the same as 'missing this show will be harmful to my child'.

AgentZigzag · 13/07/2014 00:17

I think you have a responsibility to monitor what's going on when you know she's having contact with an abusive man.

But it's whether you're able to do that without being influenced by what your mums like or how he treated you. If you think you can't then that's when you get someone in the know to take a look for you.

Let him be furious and spout about his rights, you only have to think about how your DD would feel if he stopped her doing the show to help it wash over you.

AskBasil · 13/07/2014 00:19

Messing the mother around is messing the child around.

Messing the child around is the sign of someone who is incapable of putting his child's needs first.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/07/2014 00:19

Kawliga op has to draw some line, she and her dd cannot live their lives hanging onto whether dd father is contact them for contact or not. Her is using that as a means of control. Let him go to court, at least then contact will be set in stone so he has to abide by it and cannot do his games. The only thing is events like the show, if it falls on his contact weekend it could be problematic. In that case i would collect dd from him, do the show and return her back.

AgentZigzag · 13/07/2014 00:24

I think your last paragraph is what the OP's asking really isn't it kawliga?

But she's not preventing contact, she's offered other ways round it and he's not interested.

She's only 6 (and has ASD, although I don't know how it would affect her) and has already noticed he's unfair and sets her up to feel conflicted, that's more than just messing the mum about isn't it?

Tvseemstobemyhobby · 13/07/2014 00:39

Aaaarrrggghhhh and aaaarrrggghhhh some more. It is about him messing her around and her having to chase him.
He is the child's father, he should want to spend time with his child. He should not have to be given deadlines for when to respond about his intentions for seeing his child. He should be replying as soon as is humanly possible because he desperately wants to spend as much time with his daughter as possible..including seeing her in her effing show because that's what will make him happy to see her engaged and happy. If someone tried to stop my DD from doing something they enjoyed just because.... well I'd be pretty bloody mad.

Sorry. Will go and take a chill pill now.

kawliga · 13/07/2014 00:59

Well, unfortunately there are stupid laws regulating these things, and those laws do not say that messing the mother around = messing the child around. Most estranged fathers totally mess the mothers around, that is not in itself a ground for denying contact with the dc.

Agent, I agree with what you're saying about the effect on this child of missing the show especially with the ASD. Not sure it applies to breaching OP's 48 hour notice requirement. It is a reasonable requirement but not grounds to deny contact if the father fails to meet it.

BlackeyedSusan · 13/07/2014 01:00

it is not in the best interest of your child, due to her disability to change contact at short notice. always the best interests of the child...

same goes for the show. not in her best interests to disrupt her schedule due to her disability. ... he had given permission and it was too late for him to withdraw it without adversly effecting your child's emotional well being... blah diblah... asd and all that.

pass one of those pills over here Tv

Lweji · 13/07/2014 01:00

I totally understand you.

I have had to insist on previous warnings of 24 h and he still manages to send fucking emails just past midnight, so less than that.
But I don't feel bad if I have to tell him that DS won't be available for contact, because he has messed up enough.
At this point, I will not let DS go without something he loves for the sake of contact that is often cancelled at the last minute or without warning.

You should not feel guilty here for making sure your DD goes to something that is so special to her and she has worked so hard for.
That is good parenting.
Not keeping contact with an abusive parent for the sake of keeping contact.

Lweji · 13/07/2014 01:02

Kawliga, I'm sure a court would take a dim view of a parent who keeps messing about with contact arrangements. It won't stop contact, but it won't punish the parent who is looking for the child's interests either.

Lweji · 13/07/2014 01:04

Also, reminding that contact is a child's right, not a parent's.

Parents mostly have responsibilities.
Children mostly have rights. SN children even more so.

passmethewineplease · 13/07/2014 01:09

Yanbu OP.

To make your own child miss out on something that took a lot of effort and courage is fucking cruel.

Sod him. I also agree with regards to letting you know about contact sooner.

My dd "dad" let's me know on the day, if he cancels which is 9/10 he let's me know at stupid o'clock at night.

It's shit. You have my sympathies.

AgentZigzag · 13/07/2014 01:12

The show and the 48 hour thing are both tied up with the same situation though kawliga, the OP doesn't need to separate them out and decide which one she's going to run with, they're both there together.

Most of the opening post is about the OPs concern for her DD and the show, I got the impression the 48 hour notice was the OP explaining why she'd made other plans for her DD rather than a reason why she's said no to him.

She's trying to stand up to him and not let him run roughshod over her 6 YO DD, not playing games back by trying to be as awkward as possible. She even said 'I'm torn between feeling bad because if I cancel tomorrow I've cancelled his whole weekend and feeling I need to stand up to him' I'm not sure I'd be as generous and worry about his weekend after he'd behaved like such a twat for so long.

SquigglySquid · 13/07/2014 01:49

Kawliga Stopping a child from doing something they worked hard at is emotional abuse. You don't let a kid work hard for a performance, get excited, and then not support them. As her father he should have been front row to support her. It's not a parenting difference.

When there's a contact arrangement you do what's in the best interest of the child, not what's convenient for you. It's not in a child's best interests to keep putting weekends on hold to see if her dad will come or not. If she wants to make plans, she should be able to make plans. If her dad wants to see her, he'll give notice. No court is going to fault OP if it came to that. She tried, he didn't respond in a timely manner.

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