To wonder why MNHQ still haven't given us our Chalet School topic?

[TheObligatoryNotQuiteSoNewGirl]

Because we probably shouldn't still be hanging out in AIBU, four (or is it five?) threads later.

I've been reading all the lovely transcripts, and although I started Prefects yesterday, I don't want to finish it, because it's the last one! :-(

Talking of robbers the one in Highland Twins was pretty rubbish. Absolutely terrified of the sight of Robin and Mary Shand in their white dressing gowns and convinced they were ghosts and just legged it.

By the way, in Exile Josette was only a baby when the triplets were born so how come she ends up as part of Mary Lou's gang? I thought Mary Lou was about 4 years older than the trips?

I love the relationship between Robin and Daisy in the Armishire books and how they really add to the domestic dimension of the stories. I think that really highlights the mistake EBD made in introducing so many second generation Bettanys/Russells/Maynards. If she had stuck with Bride, Sybil and then a mischievous daughter full of character for Joey, I think the later books would have been much stronger. She could have really brought the 3 cousins centre stage and shown us the dynamic between the three of them as well as the advantages and disadvantages of being members of the school's founding family. I'm not saying they should all have been only children, but the boy cousins tend to be background characters who don't take up much in the way of storylines.
She could also have kept Madge as a key character, as I think the stories lost something when she was more or less written out.

And she could always have made Jo wholesale with triplets later - I totally see the appeal of three Nina K Brisley toddlers, identical apart from their colouring, clinging to Jo's legs. I do see it. But making them the firstborns, the ones who are obviously going to be closely followed through to leaving school, is so short-sighted - especially when they're almost immediately labelled with a single characteristic each, so you can plot their stories many many years in advance. (Also, a singleton child would more likely have had a sensible choice of godmother. After Grace "Phyll" Nalder fetches up at Millie's, does she resume godmotherhood? Or had EBD forgotten that, along with her husband?)

I like the relationship between Robin and Daisy in the Armishire books, too. And I like that the school is very family-ish too - I like that Madge, Jo, Simone all at times combine teaching with mothering young children, like Simone's daughter playing on the lawn while she's teaching and stuff. It seems perfectly plausible (to my inexpert eye), esp in the wartime context, and it's very much like the family feel of the Tyrol books.

I really feel the loss of Madge in the later books, but tbh I'm not sure if the problem is that she's been effectively removed, or if it's who she's already become. I sometimes wonder whether EBD has tried and been unable to restore her to her former brilliance (thinking about Joey's letter about her becoming all 'crisp and fresh' in Canada and no longer 'that sweet Lady Russell', which perhaps suggests EBD knew the problem, but no amount of Joey saying Madge is back to her best manages to persuade me), and then eventually gives up and drops her. Bill and Madge are by far my favourite adult characters and I am somewhat surprised that both are abandoned in the latter half of the series.

OK, I must read Joey and Co. It's the artery-severing I'm sold on.

It's a good one- in a strange way. It has the terrible father Prof. Richardson in it too.

Yes, I can understand the whole picturesque appeal of the triplets and also the temptation to drop this stunning bombshell into the story shortly after Joey's marriage.
But in the long term it really dragged the stories down. It was just too difficult to simultaneously give each of them strong and distinctive personalities so they just ended up as three rather dull figures who, because they were Joey's eldest daughters, had to be given prominent roles in the stories.
I agree that Madge's personality had become very much diminished. Again, I think if EBD had introduced less nieces and nephews she could have concentrated more on sustaining the strong personality of the original Madge instead of turning her into this faded English rose character.

Maybe Madge is just really bloody tired, though. Having been raising numerous children since her own childhood and worked really quite hard (she still seems to be a v pivotal figure in the daily ops of the school throughout Mlle Lepattre's headship and at selected point thereafter), perhaps she just can't be the old Madge any more. I'd quite like to see her get divorced and take up with some adoring young man in exiguous trunks but I can't see EBD going for that option.

I suppose I really wish the books covered much more ground in the early years, get a bigger fix of Madge that way.

There are very, very few characters I really like who were introduced after Tyrol. In fact, there is Kathie Ferrars and, um, Kathie Ferrars. Bride Bettany, Jacynth Hardy, Tom Gay are all quite likeable - but none can really hold a candle to Juliet, Grizel, Simone, Corney, Evvy, Robin...

Btw, even as a child I always thought that, if I were head, I would only make a Bettany (etc) girl Head Girl if I had nobody else suitable to choose from. It would surely feel too awkward, too open to accusations of nepotism and too likely to engender bad feeling, even amongst un-covetous Chalet girls.

But what about MARY LOU Nell??

I agree though that Madge was probably just worn out. After resigning as headmistress she had several children of her own and was also in loco parentis to four of her brother's children as well as Guardian to Robin, Daisy and Primula, while also assuming responsibility for Biddy O'Ryan and Eustacia Benson, not to mention having various waifs and strays eg the Lintons coming to stay for holidays and half terms.
Feel tired just typing all that!

Ah. Yes. Mary-Lou. How could I forget the bell-like tones of the second best Head Girl ever?
That reminds me that you could easily add Clem and Verity to the list of likeable but unexceptional post-Tyrol girls, though.

I can't decide who I feel more sorry for - the Bettany children who are separated from their parents for so so long, or Sybil who so much needs to know that she is more special to her mother than they are. :(

I agree, there aren't that many memorable girls in the later books. Julie Lucey, Vi Lucey, Carola Johstone and Barbara Chester are all attractive characters but they don't have the same impact as people like Robin, Daisy, Biddy etc.

And even Mary Lou's infamous 'gang' is mainly peopled by pretty ordinary characters even though we're supposed to see them as a group everyone envies and would love to belong to.

Please could someone send me a link to the downloads? I still have a very battered set of the first ten books from my childhood, but that's insufficient for a nostalgia fest, thanks

Going back to a point asked earlier, Grace Nalder is still remembered as godmother to Margot. There is a scene where they are going to the Lake for swimming and joining up with the Millie's and Margot is rejoicing that she will be able to see her godmother and someone reminds her that Con isn't able to see hers.

I think the problem is the later books were dominated by M-L and later Len even when the book wasn't supposed to be about them. Like Jo Scott, she had the potential to be a strong character or Barbara Chester who could've been an "interesting" character (in that she has been brought up very spoilt and to think only of herself but at the same time she wants to be a good CS girl) but once they become part of the gang... that's it. They just get mentioned sort of in passing.

I find Vi Lucy much more interesting than M-L. M-L just really annoys me with the constant allowances cos she's "our OAO" (thank goodness for that) but little things like how the "school" turn a blind eye when she helps Verity out in the mornings - it just doesn't happen for any other girl. I wish EBD had answered Rosamunds question in Problem. I always found it so tantalising as a child, I had so few of the series that I could accept she was special but wanted to know why? M-L's friendship with Verity...well I see it as unequal, sort of like Simone and Joey in their school days compared to the triumvirate of Beth, Daisy and Gwensi who all bring something to the table. M-l just seemed to be constantly looking after Verity and I just get the impression that Vi would be more of an equal as a best friend. I realise that's not how best friends work but in most cases it is especially in CS world. Emerance and Margot, Len and Rosamunds. Quite a few books had subplots where someone was resentful of a friendship because they themselves wanted to be the special best friend....

I know no one will agree but... I like Jack Lambert I think she's a real flawed character along the lines of Grizel.

What was the deal with M-L and Verity being "sisters-by-marriage"? M-L always emphasised that they were NOT stepsisters, although M-L's mother married Verity's father. I never understood this - based on this, why wouldn't they be stepsisters, or am I missing something?

I don't understand that either. Probably just ML trying to be 'different' .

I was reading Gay from China last night and Jacynth says that a friend of her aunt went to the Chalet School when it was in the Tyrol but that it was ages ago as she was eighteen 'is nearly forty' now. This was in the early forties so how could the Chalet School be over twenty years old by then? Joe is only in her mid twenties and was one of the school's first pupils at twelve years of age.

Sorry, that reads a bit muddled. I meant Gay from China was set in the early forties, but in that book Jacynth says that a friend of her aunt -who is now nearly forty- attended the school when she was eighteen. Which would make the school at least twenty two years old by the WWll years, which doesn't seem right.

Joey takes over her sisters role which is a bit of a shame. And agree way too many cousins.

Would anyone be able to pm me the transcripts link?

I've never understood the "sisters by marriage" thing, either. And my best offer for the Old Girl who is far too old is that Jacynth has enormously misjudged the aunt's friend's age?

I haven't reread any of the very late books yet, and can't really remember what I made of Jack first time round. (I may well have only read one or two books featuring her anyway.) I thought she was a bit of a bully and not very CS, but I do very, very much love Grizel so I shall try to be open-minded this time around. I seem to remember that Jack had a crew of quite nothingy friends, whereas Grizel always seems to me to be fundamentally a loner, which sort of changes how I feel about her prickliness. I don't remember anything at all about Jack's back-story - I think Grizel is so clearly a product of her own upbringing.

Robin, thank you for answering my question about Miss Nalder as godmother. (Does she get to be "Grace" again, or is she stuck as "Phyll" forevermore?)

I think she was Grace

Bargain!

Oh gosh! I should put my distinctly used looking copy of Oberland up for sale. That would pay my car loan off.

Well Grizel definitely had more excuse due to upbringing but Jack was sorry for her behaviour and had been bullied herself when she joined the school. I think it makes a change to have someone who isn't too goody-goody

You would think my the time you have paid £4300 for the book they would let you off the postage.

I don't see why Anne had to wait until Jack was old enough to go to the Chalet School to go herself. It just doesn't seem fair.

Thanks for the transcripts, I haven't been well this weekend so have been indulging in an orgy of lighthearted reading and the Chalet School books are perfect for that. Also really enjoyed the two Janie ones. I wonder if there are any more of those?

OMG. I'm assuming that's a misprint!!!