...to feel like I'm on a one woman crusade.

[GroupieGirl]

Firstly, I'm well aware that this particular crusade is championed by many women and men!

But, my God, I have been surrounded by ignorant bigots this week. There was the taxi driver who seemed friendly at first, but became surly and monosyllabic when I not only refused to agree that "this gay thing is disgusting" but had the temerity to argue with him that, in my opinion, what goes on behind closed doors between two or more consenting adults has absolutely no effect whatsoever on him.

Then there was the sandwich marker in Subway who asked whether the kid's pack had ordered was for a boy or a girl. I queried why this mattered and was told that they had specific bags for boys and girls. When I pushed him, he conceded that he meant pink and blue. Looked at me like I was one of Those Wimmin...then handed me a green bag.

By the time I reached the card shop and was confronted by a particularly eye-grabbing card which said something like "Reasons why men like BLOW JOBS" I was all out of fight. My daughter is four, and unlikely to be able to read 'blow jobs'...but I really wouldn't have wanted to have to explain it to her if she were a little older.

Please tell me that the world is not completely populated by ignorant morons?!?!

And, if you would, reassure me that I'm not the only person who gets bolshy and challenges things with which I disagree?

No, you're quite right. I'm unable to discuss this with you. I'll leave you to to it, sorry to have attempted to interact with you and failed.

I bought dd trainers from the 'boys' section the other day because I wanted her to wear something other than blooming pink!

The shop assistant who fitted them genuinely couldn't deal with it, she got her self in a tizz repeatedly telling me the fit might not be right because they were boys shoes!! Dd is now telling people she has 'boys' trainers aaaaah!

Sorry, going back a bit but...

Do you really think a brain loaded on estrogen works the same way as a brain loaded on testosterone?

At four years old?

As to the gender orientated point, my youngest dd (2) loves pink. Anything she has she wants bloody pink. I dressed her in primary colours and bought gender neutral bright wooden toys, now she just wants pink. ATM she wants a pink digger and a pink tractor more than anything else in the whole world. I worry that people will assume I'm forcing her into being a 'pwetty pwincess' but it's her choice not mine, and I guess true feminism is being allowed to choose right? All the girls who WANT pink and all the boys that WANT blue shouldnt be made to feel bad about it iyswim.

As for the taxi driver, well done on challenging it, most of us are too 'polite' to do this, and it makes people believe everyone agrees with their views. More people should speak out and challenge these things.

I supposed I'd best cancel the order of loom bands I've made for DS1 because, according to squiggly, his lack of oestrogen will make him incapable of doing anything with them. (The PMS argument falls a bit flat in a discussion mainly about under 10s, btw, Squiggly)

Those would all have annoyed me too.

YANBU. Agree with the poster who mentioned Let Toys Be Toys which was started up by MNers following a thread like this one!

The world genuinely is full of very 'special' people. Including my BIL who has ranted at his lovely wife for letting their son watch 'Everything's Rosie' on cbeebies because it will turn him 'gay'. DN is just 22months old.

At a recent family get together my other BIL was outraged when his son started playing with my nieces dolls, my lovely nephew is just 3, to him a toy is a toy!

Quite frankly it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you market something to girls, show girls and only girls playing with it in the ads, say it's for girls, put it in the girls' aisles of the toyshop, then OF COURSE girls are going to want it more than something marketed solely at boys. Even at 9 DD is picking up on this and complaining that Nerf guns only show boys in their main ads (don't get me started on the uselessness that is their 'Rebelle' range).

What is Action Man other than a doll? Or Star Wars action figures? Yet they are seen as being 'for boys' and marketed as such, so again, boys want them because it is socially acceptable for them to want to do so.

Nothing to do with oestrogen or testosterone and certainly not because boys and girls are 'wired differently' - that theory was comprehensively debunked in Cordelia Fine's The Gender Delusion - I strongly urge you to buy a copy, Squiggle.

Lifes too bloody short.

My sister always liked boys stuff ever since she could voice an opinion. Action Man, robots, meccano, everything blue, short hair... It wasn't a surprise when she came out really.

I saw a little lad of about 4 dressed as a princess the other day (must've been a nursery party as there were a few peincesses and pirates about). This was one hell of a costume too (think Elizabeth 1st - all velvet and pearls). It was in trendy Notting Hill (say no more).

Today I also saw a bloke dressed in army fatigues and a Silence of the Lambs mask. Not relevant but just very weird for 4pm on a nice sunday aternoon.

That'll teach me for forgetting I started a thread....

Apologies to the poster who took offense at my use of 'moron' - I hadn't realised that it was particularly offensive.

I'm glad most of you can see why I was cross...yes, having a go at the Subway employee would be wrong, but I didn't. I politely challenged him in a way I hope will make him consider his words more carefully in future. I don't see why writing to head office and complaining in store should be mutually exclusive in this instance.

Nicename...seriously?! Your sister liked "boys' stuff" so she had to be gay? Fucking nonsense.

Oh honestly nice name, please be kidding!

Pick your battles.

YANBU about blow jobs. Have you heard of the sticker campaign? You can quietly sneak a sticker over the cover, to obscure the offending article.

YABU about the pink/blue bag...just ask for green.

I am just pointing out that her always preferring 'male targeted' stuff was the way she was/is by nature, and we just accepted that 'nice-sis' would have the blue ray-gun or robot rather than a pink dolly, please. Even our granny would knit her blue jumpers with cars on them, when I'd get red with flowers. Our mum and elder sisters were all very girly girls.

She would never wear pink, or a skirt or dress, or play with 'girls' toys. She called herself by a boys name as a child too. She tried one on me but I just would not answer to Frank!

So, no, it wasn't a surprise that she is gay. It wasn't being a tomboy, or choosing to reject gender stereotype - you'd know the difference if you grew up with her. No biggie.

Other people have the problem - the shit she put up with in our home town. The homophobic bullying I got too when I was too young to understand was pretty shit too. Getting threatened by local neds because your sis is a 'effing dyke' isn't great when you are 8.

No-one said she 'had' to be anything. I think its something you are born with. Like eye colour, or preference to apples over oranges.

And yes, it was a little boy in a princess frock. Poor kid must have been roasting.

Those saying that they wouldn't market gender specific toys if gender neutral ones sold are missing the point. If you can only buy blue or pink then when your second child comes along of the opposite sex you'll have to buy another one in the other colour.

But, nicename you've completely missed the point!

The fact that your sister is gay, and the fact that she had/has tastes that are traditionally masculine are (in my opinion) unrelated. By associating the two, you are compounding the gender (and, in this case orientation) stereotyping. "Girly girls like pink things and snogging boys, tomboys are butch and gay."

Exactly Groupie - gay women are not 'more masculine' just as gay men are not 'more feminine'

I had a long-winded argument with an FB (only) friend the other day which started with the immortal words..."I'm not racist but the Asians in the supermarket today really annoyed me...".

Many posts later of being told vehemently by them and their friends that it was only 'right' to 'say it how it is' and that they have 'loads of black friends so they can't be racist right?'

I gave up.

I'm glad most of you can see why I was cross...yes, having a go at the Subway employee would be wrong, but I didn't. I politely challenged him in a way I hope will make him consider his words more carefully in future

Sorry but there really was no need to lecture the Subway employee and you sound very pompous in the way you did it.

Moron is extremely offensive. You made some good points but you may wish to have a look at yourself too. The Subway boy did nothing which justifies you lumping him in as "an ignorant bigot" and a "moron"

I never said that lesbians were butch or gay men were feminine. My sister isn't masculine!

I was pointing out that she used her choice to say 'to thanks, I don't like pink dollies' so our parents bought her the blue car. No stomping off to HQs or telling off staff in stores.

The fact she is gay is neither here nor there - however, it does discredit the whole 'give him a doll and he will turn gay' theory (ok another gender colour/toy argument but in the same ballpark I believe). And the thread started as a general 'ignornant things I have encountered today'.

Its not the colour that matters one jot, or the pink fluffy tat/plastic car in the happy meals.

If you are going to get annoyed by something then tackle the sexualisation of children (usually girls) in fashion and the media, or write to HQs of clothing stores that sell tshirts with 'Future WAG' or equally horrible slogans. Teach your kids (using role models) that they can choose their preferences and aim for whatever career takes their fancy. Teach them to respect others and above all themselves and their bodies. And not to have a go at some poor sod working for minumum wages in a store - s/he doesn't give a rats what colour bag your kids choose.

Why is Moron extremely offensive? It is a MN offensive I assume as I have never heard a real person clutch a their pearls at the mention of moron?

Tried explaining to a woman at the pub that saying "ooh beaten by a girl" to the guy I had played was actually insulting me and all the other 'girls' around. Like banging your head against a brick wall. and I'd consider the brick wall to be far less dense

I feel bad now, the woman is actually very nice, just hadn't given the subject any mind though.