in wondering what this generation of enforced renters are going to do

[mustbetimeforacreamtea]

When they reach retirement and can't afford commercial rents on a pension? What happens then?

Can I just ask when you bought your first house?

I wonder if many lenders would give a 19 year old a mortgage nowadays, and whether the mortgage they gave them would buy a property?

I'm not trying to pick holes. I moved out at 17 and joined the military. So, I'm ok. But a lot of people didn't have the means to save, or when they did get jobs; found that their average salary didn't get them a property.

I just think there's an air of 'well I did it, why can't they?' Amongst some (and I'm not saying you) sections in this country. My house in 1997 was worth £90K. It is now worth over 6 times that.

I bought my first house 13 years ago when mortgages were much easier to get (and houses were cheaper) but my cousin bought his flat only 3 years ago. The house I bought 13 years ago (3 bed terrace) would retail for around £75k today so is well within the reach of many first time buyers. In my city you can buy 2-3 bed terrace houses from £60k if you are prepared to live in one of the less desirable areas.
I also know of a new housing development where you can buy a 50% share of a 3 bed house for £65k with only a 5% deposit. It comes with a 10 year building guarantee and the option of buying further shares as and when the purchaser can afford it.

I think they will get housing benefit. In fact sometimes for elderly people renting is a better option as costs for maintaining a property can be quite high.

I just think there's an air of 'well I did it, why can't they?'

I am guilty of that sometimes, ziggie. But, to be fair to myself, it is usually when the person moaning has all the latest gizmos and gadgets, goes on what I would consider to be bucket list holidays every year and socialises like the world is about to end .

I work with a woman who could easily afford to buy, she and her DH are both teachers. But they are so Jones fixated that they are permanently chasing a dream rather than living their real lives.

I think that people in her position do colour other people's perspectives. Not fair, I know. But, having also watched the other end of that stick (5 minutes of Benefits Street etc), I can see how some could have that impression about everyone!

I just think there's an air of 'well I did it, why can't they?'

I do have an air of that because I think a lot more people could buy if they were prepared to make sacrifices on both their current lifestyle and where they are prepared to live and the type of house they are prepared to live in.
Some areas of the country have priced out anybody on a modest income but most regions have low cost options if people are prepared to lower their standards and buy something less than their ideal.
3 bed houses within 5 miles of where I live can vary between £60k and close to £1m.

I've looked into shared ownership options and, around here at least and also in the place I lived before we moved here, they are not very good deals. It's probably ok just about although still a gamble if you think that you're going to be earning more in, say, 10 years time so that you can buy up further shares, but if you're forever stuck owning 50% then you're forever paying 50% rent plus your mortgage payments. In both of the areas where I've considered it (and I realise this is not true of everywhere) the rent + repayments is equal to the cost of buying at the cheaper end of the market so yes you do get a nicer property for the same monthly sum but if you can't afford the cheaper end of the market anyway (I can't and like I said I'm in the north) then it makes no odds - it's still out of a lot of people's reach and they could end up paying rent indefinitely. Plus, and this isn't a consideration for everyone but you never know what life is going to throw at you re jobs and having to move etc, they are much more difficult to sell.

Oh and I wish I could buy a 3-bed house for £60k. Round here even the places in rough as dogs' arses' areas (which I would be prepared to live in if it meant having security) are way out of my reach. It's probably easy to say that everyone could buy if they wanted to, but if that was the case then surely people would, and they're not, so perhaps the fact that the average house costs 8x the average wage has something to do with it, rather than how many smartphones a person has. That makes logical sense to me.

Happy Again, living with parents is not an option for many and not just because of living in rural areas. I don't get on well with my parents and moved out at the first possible option. In any case it was badly overcrowded and continuing to share a walk-in cupboard with my 14 years younger sister wasn't an option in adulthood, not that I'd wanted it when younger, not that I was welcome either. My dh is from a deprived background and also had no home with parents from 18.

many people of course have even bigger problems, not to mention abusive situations. Do they not matter?

Socially, go and re-read almost any Dickens book. Do we really want to go back to the situation where birth and family was the only thing that mattered, however 'deserving' you were? As someone who would have fallen at the first hurdle, I hope not! We should be able and allowed to make our own way.

I actually agree with Missunreasonable.

There are a lot of people who live literally on the edge of their budget who won't be able to afford to buy a house for a long time, if ever.

But there are also a lot of people who aren't prepared to make the sacrifices that would be necessary for them to buy somewhere! I could have had a lot of nice clothes and holidays with the money I have spent on my flat over the last 4 years. As it is, I have very few clothes and holidays are a distant dream but I do have a nice flat. And it winds me up too that I have friends who genuinely are crap with money but think I'm somehow 'lucky', 'entitled', 'smug' for having made different choices that have enabled me to buy a modest flat.

TheCuriousOwl, I think you need to get nicer friends. Unless you really are lucky, entitled and smug (which, now you come to mention it ...)

Plus, apparently there are 'a lot of people' who can't afford to buy, even according to you, but then there are also 'a lot of people' who can afford to buy but wilfully don't. So, which is it? In answering this, you might want to bear in mind that the average house costs 8x the average wage, and that two-thirds of employees earn less than the 'average' wage. Which possibly has something to do with people not buying.

Such a sad thread

We have entered a new age of feudalism for sure.

I'm fortunate to have escaped that for myself (at 45) but I know the reality of handing most of your hard earned to the landlard (good typo!) or bank is becoming the norm for so many people in their 20's and 30's.

Terrible.

I agree that people unwilling to make sacrifices have no reason to moan. But some of us have no choice to rent even though we hardly ever go out, don't buy luxuries, budget like maniacs, etc. In my case the problem is not so much getting a mortgage (banks would lend me a reasonable amount based on my salary) but being able to save up a deposit ... even saving a 5% deposit to make use of the help to buy schemes will take an age. I live in an extremely expensive part of the country where a house big enough for us will cost at least £220k (I'm pretty certain of this because I check the ads every day!). And even then we live 50 miles from where I work and I commute because the area where I work is even more expensive!

Re shared ownership schemes, I keep an eye out for these but they're not great deals. Typically you don't get to haggle on the price and you pay a premium for them, it seems. In my area you can get a 3-bed house for around £250k on average, and recently some 2-bed shared ownership houses were advertised based on a market value of £250k. So, whilst they might enable you to get a foot on the ladder, you are buying ownership based on an inflated value.

Our approach is to rent a tattier, cheaper house than our budget can afford in order to be able to save some cash for a deposit on somewhere.

Cruikshank: I don't know where up north you are but I will post some affordable houses up north just to show that they do exist. I don't know how to post multiple links so will have to do multiple posts

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-42073600.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-46511048.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-30600708.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-45276122.html

Are those properties out of reach of modest earners?

That's just 2 cities but similar prices exist in Nottingham, derby....

CuriousOwl I rent, all my clothes are from Tesco and I save up to get my hair done every 2 months :) I couldn't afford a mortgage, for the life of me I can't see how I could. I also don't see who would afford me credit, unless they were about to be sectioned. If I'm honest I wouldn't even give myself credit, and I'm reasonably fond of myself. The biggest treats in my life are cans of Tennants and the odd packet of super sour Chewits.

Not all renters are rolling in money which they just don't want to use because they're too busy checking out holidays in the Seychelles. I get laughed at for posting on Mumsnet because it's "so middle class". I normally try to defend yous, but sometimes I can't.

If you can afford rent and don't get housing benefit you can probably afford a mortgage. Saving a deposit is the difficult part.

Missunreasonable, thanks for that but none of them are anywhere near me. I am just about now facing up to the fact that we will have to move - away from my job, away from school, away from my support network - if I want to be able to have any kind of security ie buy because renting is never secure and the top-ups that we get at the moment to be able to afford the rent (ie tax credits and housing benefit - the latter because despite working full-time more than 65% of my income including tax credits goes on rent) will stop eventually, and then I won't be able to provide a family home any more. It's kind of a leap into the unknown though - I have started a thread asking for advice on the subject re the place that looks most likely for us on what I can earn realistically, but it will totally be a wrench to leave our lives here behind - our friends, all the activities that we do etc. It's easy enough I think to up sticks before you have kids - I have done it loads - but with them it's that much harder. Also, I have bipolar and the last three times I've had a psychotic episode, I have lost my job as a result. So I'm never going to earn very much, because I'll never have a stable employment history, and I might well in the future be in the position where I'm not earning at all several times. Really, the ideal for us would be council housing, but there is none of that left. I get very down about it a lot of the time and worry worry worry so much that I can't provide properly, and can't really see a way out of it. Maybe a move to somewhere different will be the thing that gets us security, but I'm always going to be worried about the next episode and what happens to us then - at least with renting there is always housing benefit while the kids are young.

If you might be reliant on HB in the future a shared ownership might be ideal, you can claim HB for the share you pay rent on. You Could buy 25% share for security and rent the rest.

But they are expensive! I can't afford any of the shared ownership schemes where I live. And once the dc are all grown up, then HB will only cover what a single person would get, which is not enough for a family home, and I would still need to cover the mortgage part of it regardless.

Honestly, I think about this pretty much all the time to the point of obsession and I really can't see a way around it. I think I am going to make the jump to elsewhere and just pray and hope it works out, because we are certainly priced out of where we are, but I don't want to do it really and I am scared. And because I'm scared, I am also angry. I'm angry that our future and our heritage in the form of council housing has been sold off. I am angry that despite working really hard I can't get security for my family. I am angry that there seems to be two tiers of people, replacing the old class system - those who own, and those who rent, with those who rent getting the shitty shitty end of the stick. It is appalling that in a country as rich as the UK is, people are living in substandard accommodation, in overcrowded accommodation, in insecure accommodation. We have so much money - there shouldn't be anyone who doesn't have a proper home.

I agree with you Cruikshank and you have made me look at it differently.

Wow, thanks for that! Now we just need to convince Cameron, Miliband and all the rest! Haha!