Someone please tell me I'm normal & I'm not being unreasonable :-((

[luby03]

Someone please tell me I'm normal..........
I hit complete rock bottom on Saturday.......tears, well actually sobbing......shouting......slamming doors and now I feel dreadful :-(
My DP and I have been together now for 5.5 years and he took on my 3 DC, we also have a 18 month DD. I'm a SAHM who practises attachment parenting and have done with all my DC. I'm still feeding, probably too much but it's easier said than done! My older three children are 13 and 10 year old twins, they argue constantly and never do as they are asked.....
My DP spends weekdays working 9-5 and weekends we always try to get out, typical weekend is a trip to the beach or cycling......
The problems is my DP gets in from work and likes to rest as he's had a hard day so I have to continue looking after DD and the running of the house. I cook tea every week night and clear up (washing up) but DP does try to do it most weekends and I clear up. I do ALL the housework and garden, DP doesn't like gardening so wont do it but our landlord complains a lot about it so I have to do which is a struggle as toddler runs off as garden isn't secure.
He shouts at DC constantly which I can kind of understand as it is frustrating when all they do is argue but they are lovely lovely children who have glowing reports and you can take them anywhere.......I personally think they are just being children and he should chill but he won't. He never cuddles them, he kisses them all goodbye in the morning and tells them he loves them but that's it.
We have a lovely relationship apart from this, we never argue, we laugh together and our sex life is still there considering how many DC we have and one in the bed ;-) if we didn't have children our relationship would be perfect really......(I don't really think he's cut out to be a dad!)
I'm over tired and I've told DP this, I've told him I'm really struggling so on Thursday I saw a message from another woman on Facebook.....I asked him who it was and he said a girl from his past......fair enough nothing else said.
I've never felt truly loved by him, I always feel like someone got away and I'm second best......I've no idea why I feel like this as he's never mentioned anyone. He talks about marriage but has never proposed, he says we can't afford it.......since we've been together he's had an insurance payout but he didn't put any aside for a ring :-(
We don't have any help, my mum doesn't love me, my sister can count on one hand how many times she's met our DD, DP mum is an alcoholic, his dad lives abroad and his sister doesn't speak to any of his family....
So anyway on Friday I exploded slightly, I sent him some texts on the lines of....he doesn't love me because he's never bothered to ask me to marry him yet he talks about it, he's lazy because he doesn't help me. I said I felt sick to the stomach when I saw a message from another woman and wanted to look but I wouldn't and I shouldn't be feeling like this nearly 6 years on. I told him I was struggling and I rang the doctors......etc.....When he came home from work I was resting on our bed heartbroken as I was really struggling and the older DC were looking after DD, he didn't even come in to see if I was ok. He ate his tea and watched football then came to bed about midnight so I pretended to be asleep as didn't want a row. The next morning he didn't speak to me so I gathered all the children and started putting the bikes on the car crying......I ended up shouting at him as all I wanted was for him to hold me and tell me everything was going to be ok, I'd cried out for help and I got the silent treatment then he got cross and shouted at me.......he ended up coming with us and the next day we spent the day at the beach......
I now feel I will never tell him how I feel as he wasn't supportive in anyway.
But was I wrong? Am I being wrong in wanting him to help with DD? Maybe brush her teeth for me or change a nappy, maybe play with her more? Is it wrong of me to want this?
This morning he told me not to forget to get hold of GP.......mums up at school laughed and said I didn't need to go to the doctors.....they said it was all normal and they can't believe I've never lost it before as they do it all the time......
Is there something wrong with me?
Why does he think I'm not good enough to marry but I'm good enough to have his DD and do everything for him? I don't think for one second he would cheat on me so why would I feel so sad that another woman has messaged him.....I've never been a jealous person......
It's always bothered me he shouts at the DC & I do tell him but he won't change. I've also told him now and again he's lazy but it's not worth the hassle I get so I just get on and do it all myself but having a toddler and doing everything is taking its toll.......and to top it all off we have no money and my car is poorly, I'm so scared I'm going to have to do the summer holidays without a car again :-)
Please someone tell me I'm not loosing the plot? X

It's hard, there's no denying that but often the quickest way.

But there are other more gentle methods and I would suggest asking under breast and bottle feeding about night weaning, and perhaps under parenting or sleep for suggestions on dealing with the sleep.

It's completely up to you, how you go about this and maybe look at all options (even ones you don't like the sound of) for comparisons and potential time scales so you can weigh up what your happy with alongside what's best for your whole family (including you) and the fact that do is pretty hands off so it will fall to you.

You now say you don't think your children's behavior is that bad (and I agree it's probably not, some of the time, and probably is some of the time ... they are children), but you did think so when you said things like this >>>

"My older three children are 13 and 10 year old twins, they argue constantly and never do as they are asked"

"He shouts at DC constantly which I can kind of understand as it is frustrating when all they do is argue"

"We've tried the staying in bit but the DC argue more when they are in, it seems to be easier to take them out and ware them out"

You say you never undermine him, and always back him in front of the children (telling him when your alone, if you really disagree), but ... in the same post ...you then go on to give a clear example of how you do undermine him by creating two camps, him v you and the children >>>

"and me pulling faces at the DC to stop them from putting him in a bad mood"

I do understand and I do see you are at the end of your tether. I agree, yes, he does have to change ... but I reiterate ... so do you.

I think some posters have suggested counselling or relate ... would that be a possibility for you and your DP?

Adishbesteatencold........
I'm not saying their not naughty but when I said this in my original post I then didn't want people to think they were terrible because the behaviour they are showing is all normal.....it's not like they actually fight or brake things, it's not like they run off etc......it is only arguing and not doing as told, which I think all children do and it's all perfectly normal although very annoying for some......like my DP, it annoys me but it doesn't put me in a bad mood with everyone.......does that make sense?
I guess I never thought me trying to stop the Dc in their tracks by pulling faces at them was undermining him if I'm honest :) oops!
I'd like to go to relate but I've just googled it and it's rather a lot of money, I think if he could just help more and talk to me more then we'll be ok.......right now though I'm willing to try anything as I can't go on like this :-( I'm fed up of crying and it's so not like me.......none of this is like me and that scares me :-(

Luby, I've skipped through so my apologies if I've missed something (I know, I know, rtft etc)

Anyway. Could you write a list of things that he could do to help? Men like to be proactive but are normally very blind about figuring it out.

So maybe email him a list? Like, I'd like you to do x, y and a with the dc.
I'd like a hug every morning.
I'd like you to ask about my day when you come home.

It is also worth considering popping to your gp in case you are suffering from anxiety/depression.

I'd also consider stopping the BF x

I agree that what your children do is perfectly normal, and that it is great that their continual arguing and not doing what their told doesn't annoy you (although I would suggest that that is only sometimes true, given that you also say you that going out at weekends is easier that staying in, when their behavior is worse), but it clearly does annoy your DP.

Perhaps it wouldn't annoy him nearly so much and perhaps he would be much more relaxed with regards to their behavior, if he felt that their was some agreed means to control their behavior, some level of discipline, and if there was some equal expectation from you both that house rules for the whole family were more or less adhered to and enforceable.

It is, of course, not just the older children, but the whole family dynamics, including where to progress with your toddler. I see you are now thinking about getting a cot (I do hope that if you and your DP do decide to do that, you and he will also, at least, stop night-feeds ... otherwise I visualise the night time disruptions increasing not decreasing!)

It really is absolutely great that you are already thinking about changes in sleeping and feeding arrangements that would benefit the whole family, and might especially benefit you and your DP as a couple. Well done!

Can I suggest that it might be a good thing to now involve your DP in such decision making ..... to ask him what changes he thinks would be beneficial with regards to co-sleeping and BF; tell him what ideas you have for change; ask him how he thinks the changes could be implemented by you both ; tell him your ideas for implementation.

If there are big gaps between your thinking and his, discuss compromising, look for the middle ground ... neither your way nor his, but the middle (I promise your DD won't die of middle ground) and especially ... very especially ... talk about how you will each support the other through the changes, when things get tough (a sort of parents v toddler, for a change).

Finally (for this one little set of changes) talk about how, when things go a bit awry ... when you cave in and feed her; when he opts out and leaves it to you; when you get irritated with each other ... you will later sit down and remind each other that it was a blip, that you still have a common goal, talk about what you both could have done to minimise the blip, and how you could each support the other through the next blip (because there will be one).

Any help?

Nothing will change unless you are communicating better with each other. an explosive text followed by the silent treatment won't get the relationship going anywhere. Don't expect things to be different overnight but try to work on talking about how each other is feeling everyday. Start with just one or two questions, and build it up to having deep conversations about your present situation and future plans. You will need to set aside time and a space to do this, and treat it as an important part of your day.

I'm not sure that you need to stop breastfeeding. The time constraints and difficulties you encounter in your day due to breastfeeding are things that you could build up to talking about.

Try to not make your conversations about how you're feeling completely negative. And don't make accusations, rather describe how you're feeling, and if you know what might help - offer the solution too, rather than hoping he'll read your mind, or know what you expect.

You need to work out what you can do to look after yourself - excersise, 5-htp from amazon, sleep, help with chores, child free time

Make a list of everything you need done chores wise. Sit down and ask which jobs DH and the kids would prefer to do each day. They can all do a job each day and I can't see any reason why your DC can't be in charge of the garden. They can mow, weed etc.

With arguing, send them to their rooms or outside. You are obviously very accepting of their poor behaviour but it would do my nut in!!

With refusing to do as asked, the can have a warning and then its time to turn the wifi/TV/computer off

I think you should sleep on the floor of your DC's room so you get a full night for a change

It's like treading on eggshells constantly and me pulling faces at the DC to stop them from putting him in a bad mood!

he watches tv :-( [while other DCs look after the youngest]

I've even had rows with [my mum] about they way he speaks to me and the DC. Two of my friends have also been upset by him

To be honest, your relationship sounds very unsupportive for you and, also, your children are not being treated properly. You can make a choice about whether to stay in this family dynamic; then can't. Come on over to Relationships and see what other perspectives you get.

and, no, YANBU. He is unsupportive.

Relationships

you can ask Mumsnet to move your post by clicking on 'Report' and requesting it to be moved to Relationships (if you want!)

Adishbesteatencold.....I said it was annoying but it wouldn't put me in a bad mood......
I didn't realise how awful my relationship was until now

Noodle.....I know a text is not good and I do feel awful but it's so not like me and that's kinda the point, I'm all out of character because I'm struggling
We do ask how each other's days have been but if I moan he doesn't like it so I just lie and say everything's fine.......
I guess I need to face up to our relationship being rubbish as well as the lack of sleep

I completely understand your frustration with the marriage situation, my sil was in the exact same fix until I explained to db that living together is.not 'the same as marriage' but has done fundamental legal niceties that as the mother of his children he should put first and pull his fucking finger out and rectify...1. you are not his next of kin. should he have an accident you have no rights to decide his treatment. 2. If you were. married and he died or you divorced you would get a pension (state) based on his contributions based on duration of marriage, up to £200 pw with NO loss to him. Not entitled if not married. Property rights - none if not married. Inheritance - no rights if not married... If you are good enough to bear his children you are good enough to marry ! There is NO SUCH THING AS COMMON LAW it's a fallacy !!! for your future security , show him this post. If he can't do the decent thing knowing this then he is an arse !! and you know his true feelings. You don't need a fortune to marry, get on freecycle, the folks on there love a wedding. the legals coat under £300.. good luck xx

Sassy you are so right, even he has said if anything happened to him his alcoholic mother would get everything!! He seems to really want to do it, even more so than me but I can't understand why he hasn't bought me a ring and proposed
To be honest though lots of people have made very good points on here and maybe I shouldn't marry him, certainly not until things change and a long time down the road now
He has just offered to take DD to Aldi with him but I said no as she was tired and she's now fast asleep so good job otherwise she'd have fallen asleep in the car then she would have been a nightmare to get to sleep!! but it was nice of him to offer

"Sassy you are so right, even he has said if anything happened to him his alcoholic mother would get everything"

That is simply not true, luby. He has a child. His child would legally trump his mother in the event of him tragically dying intestate, but your comments do make me wonder if you are perhaps more concerned with the lack of of ring, proposal and marriage, than with the other issues. Although perhaps the two things are part and parcel of each other, for you.

I found your replies to my last post and to Noodle 's last post very sad. I certainly was not trying to infer that your relationship was awful or rubbish, nor do I think that was Noodle 's intent.

What I was trying to do was help. I was trying to take the things you had told us and the feelings you had talked of, and trying visualise why your DP might be detaching in this way, not helping and supporting you, and trying to imagine his feelings too. I was trying to help.

I do hope things improve for you and (dare I say) that you soon get both the ring and the proposal that you want. Good luck.

I didn't think for one second you were interfering.....I'm sorry if I made you feel like that. I just never really thought our relationship was bad, I just felt we were struggling because of being tired but this has made me realise that's not the case....,if he truly loved me he would respect me enough to want to help me and not watch me suffer I can't marry a man like that, it wouldn't be setting a good example to my children!
I think I like the idea of being loved enough for someone to want to marry me no matter what and it hurts that this is not the case with someone who changed my mind about wanting more children as that's massive for me!
My head is everywhere at the mo and it has to be due to tiredness but I think he needs to change tired or no and this post has made me realise that. I posted hoping people would tell me I wasn't being unreasonable wanting more from him but I never expected this.......I realise I need to change too!

Your children are learning from you to walk on egg shells to stop one person being in a bad mood and bringing an atmosphere over the whole family.

You are trying to get the children to not wind him up by pulling faces. Again you are teaching them to walk on eggshells and pacify someone.

Your eldest DD tells you she hates him. That is doesn't matter what she does it's wrong. You even say he has it in for her!

Other people have commented about how he talks to the children. Generally people (like your children) are better behaved when in public than at home so if they are commenting out of the house just how bad is he in the house?

Your older kids do more for your youngest child than her own father does.

You back him up even when you don't think he is right. This is not always good. If he is being unjustly bad, going on and on as you say then you need to be able to tell him in front of the children when he is in the wrong. Children should not be made to feel bad or told off if it is unfair.

He comes home from your desperate crying out for help and watches football! he doesn't even do anything with his child. He just eats his tea and watches football.

You used to come home from work and hear him shouting before you even got in. Your kids had to put up with that while you were not there!

How long after she is able do you think your eldest will be out the door and away from this man?

It sounds terrible.

Luby, we attachment parent our 11 month old, co sleep, baby wear, breastfeed etc and I have a nearly 15 year old daughter whom my husband is a stepfather too. Attachment parenting is hard work and certainly not for wimps but really needs both parents to support one another. My husband works hard at a full time job and comes home tired too. However he does pull his weight when he gets home, our lo loves him but prefers me when needing comfort so if he can't settle/play with lo he takes over other stuff , finishing off dinner, he'll do the last load of washing up of the day whilst I do bedtime etc. We were very clear when we decided to try for a baby that although our teens life would obviously have to change when we had a baby, that we wouldn't constantly put on her because of baby so had to sit down n decide what was reasonable to expect from a teen re stuff around the house. Sounds like your husband hasn't bonded with your older children and also expects you to do everything around the house too.
I would seek some support in your relationship, whether that's through relate or somewhere else, in our area some churches run couples counselling/ courses to help you learn to better communicate. It also might be worth seeing if you can find some way to help your husband bond better with your children, as well as pull his weight with your toddler.

Re breastfeeding, that is absolutely down to your personal choice, but in attachment parenting its recognised that breastfeeding is a two way relationship,so if its not working for you then its fine to set limits/nightwean. If you are thinking of changing sleep arrangements have you considered a bed for lo rather than a cot, if a single there would still be space for you to feed/read/snuggle her to sleep if you needed to. In fact some of our friends have a single at the bottom of their bed so lo is still very close but in a separate sleep space. Also have you considered going out for day with your older children to have some reconnecting time and leaving your husband to manage toddler did and see how tiring it is. All children would get some time to connect with a parent, perhaps your older children and yourself need some time to reconnect, you could always do dh and older kids another weekend and you stay home or go out separately with toddler.

Please be kind to yourself and remember in order to parent well sometimes we need to put our needs first, but at moment it seems like you're trying to do all things for everyone and not managing which is understandable.

You said you never argue. Well that's because you are running round trying to pacify him and the only reason you don't argue is because he gets his win way all the time.

The second you put up resistance ie the text, you get the silent treatment and you dare not speak to him about it because obviously then you will argue.

What an unhealthy relationship. There is no respect for your feelings and needs. You are teaching your dc to put up with crap.
He may have his good points but this is only because everyone panders to him.

Start demanding respect and help. If it causes arguments then so be it. At least if your relationship is doomed, it will bring things to a head sooner rather than later. Things can't and shouldn't, continue as they are.

If you do t respect yourself, no one else will. Demand that respect. Things won't change unless you make things change.

Win = own

Luby I really feel for you. I know that feeling of being overwhelmed by your circumstances, not sure if you trust your own judgment.

I do think your DP isn't pulling his weight. I work 24 hours a week, My DH often works 60 hours a week (starting at 6.30/7am) but he still comes home and helps to bath DD (15 mo) and reads her stories. Even if it's just half an hour. He's shattered but he rarely misses it. I usually do dinner but he helps and he often does the dishwasher.

One thing that worries me is that you've repeatedly said We never argue like that's a good thing. But actually what you're doing is refusing to confront him about things and then lashing out (e.g. The texts) and he gets sullen and withdrawn. Do you actually feel like issues ever get resolved?

DH had a stressful time a couple of years ago (fertility problems and a house fire) and we had Relate. We were entitled to 6 free sessions through his work. It helped us to start communicating better and be more understanding of each other. I would recommend it.

XP re arguing bouttime!

Yes I noticed that

Thank you for all your replies/advise
You've all made complete sense and I think I need to rethink my life to be honest but I can't do that on lack of sleep so once I've sorted the sleep out I will tackle the rest
One of you hit the nail on the head by saying I'm overwhelmed by my situation......I think that's so true xx

I think a lot of the early posts assume he's basically a nice dad working hard and doing his best with a noisy difficult step-family. I don't read it like this, I agree with people that he's exceptionally lazy. When I get in from work, also tired and exhausted, I have to cook, clean, do housework, bathe everyone, put them to bed, run kids to swimming, Brownies. My day is just starting.

I think it's very telling that you say he does nothing with any of the children- even if you are bf/ap your youngest, he could take your ds out for a kickabout, take the oldest to Guides, play a game with the other one. He does none of this.

I am also worried by phrases like 'treading on eggshells' and 'I pull faces so they don't upset him'. His moods and shouting are so terrible, it changes the dynamic of the household? This is awful OP.

I agree, come over to Relationships for some advice on how to cope. It may be solvable, with some extremely firm boundaries on his behaviour- but he needs to step up and stop with the shouting- no wonder the older child just doesn't think he's on her side- he's not.

The most telling remark is that he'd be happy if you didn't have kids- lots of cuddles, time for chatting etc- but you have four!

This is a far from ideal situation, I agree with everyone though about getting more sleep to then get yourself together to deal with it.