to think graduating with a 2:1 is not the same as graduating with a First?

[ClaudiaGooselover]

I am due to graduate this week from a top RG Uni, which is a massive achievement considering I've completed my studies around difficult life circumstances and having four children. I have achieved a First. However, my university sent me a letter saying I have a 2:1. When I queried it they said one assignment was three months late so I received no mark for it. This was incorrect and I was able to provide the mark and comment sheet to demonstrate I actually submitted it early.

They are now 'liasing' about this and said they'll just change my certificate after graduation if need be. Aibu to think that this isn't good enough? I've told everyone at uni and from my family who are attending that I have a First, I wanted the experience of being announced as a First after how hard I've worked to achieve it.

Plagiarism is one thing Beck. getting assistance is another. It's not capable of detection in the same way. Are you talking about Durham? I thought Durham still did exams?

Manila plenty of students getting firsts each week in their supervisions and tutorials get much lower marks in a three hour exam. Exams are not easier for the vast majority of high achievers. Still, as you say this is a sub conversation!

congrats op

and can I ask, where on earth did you find the drive to achieve this?

Molio
Manila plenty of students getting firsts each week in their supervisions and tutorials get much lower marks in a three hour exam. Exams are not easier for the vast majority of high achievers. Still, as you say this is a sub conversation!

I just wished I'd figured out before starting my degree how my brain worked (short attention span, good under short bursts of pressure...) and I'd have picked a different subject entirely . I'm starting a post grad qualification in Sept which combines on the job work with research/reflection and I AM DREADING IT!

Not Durham, molio but up that way....

You're so right manillia - knowing how you work best is key to picking the right assessment type and therefore course for you! I suspect you're in a minority in preferring the exam mode..... Although in our house it's probably about 50:50 for those who prefer exams and those who prefer assignments....

Oh ok - then York? Is that top for English at the moment? I know it's good but I thought Durham was allegedly 'top'. I must be a bit behind :)

We're a 50/50 split too Beck (boys good at exams/ girls not great). But they just aim for an institution surely - who would get into the nitty gritty of types of assessment? Fact remains that there's been rampant grade inflation, which is a shame.

Molio Why are desperately trying to discredit universities as well as students who achieve well in assignment based courses? It makes you look very petty.

I'm not 'desperately' attempting to do anything MyFairyKing. It's true that I've been a bit peeved recently to discover how easy it is to cheat on these assignments by getting help (a specific case). But the general point is that there is now such a plethora of different methods of assessment, some far easier than others, that the same grade of degree actually carries a very different weight according to institution/ method of assessment, never mind the lack of absolute measure for grades across all universities. As an employer, it matters and is not petty. A First or 2.1 from one uni should at least roughly equate with the same class of degree from another, but it doesn't. That's very different from GCSEs/ ASs and A2s.

It does come across quite pettily though Molio, especially as you just admitted your bizarre attitude comes from your experience of a particular case of cheating it's quite possible to cheat in exams you know.

Molio Well, you're coming across as very petty, basing your views on one experience. As far as I am aware, employers don't ask how you were assessed at university. They just want to know the grade.

Incidentally, vocational degrees such as; teaching and nursing are often assessment based and are almost exclusively taught at ex-poly universities.

OP only mentioned the RG thing as if to suggest that such a university might be better organised

OP's story shows very clearly why that is a dodgy assumption to make.

I would fight tooth & nail to get my 1st acknowledged if I were OP. No delay, right on them.

Lecturer at top RG university here: fight it. It's their fault and it absolutely is NOT too late for them to change it on the order of programme or, at the very least, to make a manual change and allow you to walk up the front with the Firsts.

I would be kicking up a fuss too OP - you deserve the acknowledgement of your hard work.

I agree, kick up a fuss big time! I would be livid.

In not all cases but many I do think the difference between a 2:1 and first is the amount of time and effort put in, it definitely does not come down to luck. You deserve your achievement and immensely hard work to be recognised.

YANBU!

I work in Education and produce the programme for graduation day for my place of work.

If a grade was ever listed incorrectly it might be too late to change it in the programme, if it had gone to the printers, BUT when the students were called up at the ceremony the grade would be corrected on the 'read out sheet' to reflect the correct grade and obviously the certificate (which is sent on later) amended.

At my university degrees aren't differentiated at the graduation ceremony. Clearly at some places they are.

trufflesnout it is not bizarre to acknowledge the clear reality that not all Firsts are equal, nor all 2.1s. At least employers acknowledge that even if MNers can't.

MyFairyKing I am not generalising from one particular, although a recent admission did annoy me, true. And no it's extremely hard, actually, to cheat in exams. How would you do that exactly? When I sift CVs I have a clear pretty-much-straight-in-the-bin policy for certain unis, or certain grades of degree depending how recent. Of course employers in certain fields are going to be picky, and there's no point saying it's petty. If there are so many unis, and so many of those being so liberal in awarding top grades, naturally employers have to narrow the net using their own discretion. It would be much fairer to top students if there was a more universal threshold in awarding top grades, especially for those who flowered later and don't have the 'top uni' tag.

Rollo with exam based degrees a huge amount comes down to psychology, constitution and luck. Absolutely it does. Often the more work put in, the more exhausted a student becomes and the worse the result. What you say just doesn't apply so often to exam based degrees. With continuous assessment I would agree, but continuous assessment is far easier in the nature of things - far more relaxed, far less acute stress.

MyFairyKing it makes sense for vocational degrees to be assessed differently. They're different.

Molio I didn't say it was the rule for all but for the vast majority I think it does come down to the time you put in, the effectiveness of your study and exam technique. All of these require hard work to give yourself the time to work out over the years what works for you in terms of exam revision and techniques.
From my experiences both for assessment based and exam based courses, those who get firsts are the ones who have put the hours and commitment in. Unfortunately, some of those get 2:1s but generally the system works.
I speak working in education and with a DD who just got a first who entered the course with some of the lower a level grades of the intake and actively moved herself up from a 2:1/2:2 at the end of first year through A LOT of hard work.
Yes there will be some who are naturally bright and able to remember information easily but for the vast majority it comes down to hard work. I think it is important students are aware that it is hard work for their own mindsets.

I think the main problem is that you were never told you had a 1st. It maybe that on reviewing your grades something else has come up (late work or a resit holding your mark at just pass, border line grades etc.) otherwise I don't see why they cannot confirm the 1st.

Rollo I do certainly agree that you probably can't get a First without hard work. Not at all convinced about the rest. I also think that very, very hard work may be a bad thing, exam wise. Too much information can be dangerous, with c. 45 mins per question even at 3rd year level. I also work in education. I also may be talking myself into believing that assignment based assessment is best:) But I am still very cross that one student's mum confessed she wrote the DC's essays (so how many more do the same?) and extremely sad that some incredibly talented students fall at the final hurdle when faced with a batch of old fashioned finals. It just seems to me that there's too much variation for there to be any valid comparison.

Many congrats to your DD, her story is genuinely impressive.

We just went up alphabetically. I was clutching a packet of fags at the time.

I have noticed that the people who moan about grade inflation, easier courses, and assignments over exams are people who are bitter about their own grades.

Not me :)

And DS has just romped home with a double first :)

Can't.resist.stealth.boasting.

ahh and therein lies the rub.