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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think graduating with a 2:1 is not the same as graduating with a First?

157 replies

ClaudiaGooselover · 06/07/2014 11:14

I am due to graduate this week from a top RG Uni, which is a massive achievement considering I've completed my studies around difficult life circumstances and having four children. I have achieved a First. However, my university sent me a letter saying I have a 2:1. When I queried it they said one assignment was three months late so I received no mark for it. This was incorrect and I was able to provide the mark and comment sheet to demonstrate I actually submitted it early.

They are now 'liasing' about this and said they'll just change my certificate after graduation if need be. Aibu to think that this isn't good enough? I've told everyone at uni and from my family who are attending that I have a First, I wanted the experience of being announced as a First after how hard I've worked to achieve it.

OP posts:

Sillylass79 · 06/07/2014 17:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoreyTrevorLahey · 06/07/2014 17:30

When I graduated from a RG in 2009, classifications weren't mentioned, but they did note if you had an outstanding achievement, eg. CoreyTrevorLahey, BA Hons Communication Design with distinction in Historical and Critical Studies, and best dissertation in the Design School true fact

I think it varies from place to place. But I really would challenge the university if you've been penalised unjustly, not so much because you'll get a first, but because of the principle of the whole thing. You've done your job and worked hard - they should do theirs. And congratulations on a brilliant achievement!

ICanHearYou · 06/07/2014 17:32

Op hug

sillylass hug

pandarific · 06/07/2014 17:52

Sillylass, YANBU to be irritated at that. Brokenhearted, do you have sand in your pants today?

I got the handshake and to go up first at my uni, so YANBU OP - you've done really bloody well!

I was more worried at the time about my not-very-well-secured mortarboard hat thing falling off - bring hair clips.

whatever5 · 06/07/2014 18:22

whatever not all top research institutions are necessarily part of RG. It's pretty much a members' club. I went to two RG places btw, so not bitter or anything, but it isn't as impressive as they like to make out.

I know that but if you look at the list of universities in the group most of them are the top research institutions and are also the original universities (not ex polys of colleges of higher education).

Tigerbike · 06/07/2014 18:33

Fight to the DEATH for it!

TheRealAmandaClarke · 06/07/2014 18:54

Sorry. Bit glib.

CaptainSparklePants · 06/07/2014 19:04

I think it is important the classification you get. A third means you got between 40-50% overall, and a first means you got over 70%. Whatever your circumstances a first is a lot of work and imho worth acknowledging. I worked my arse off in my final year scraping my grade up to a first and I would have been so pissed if they had screwed up and put a 2:1.

Of course different things matter to different people so for me my academic grades were so important (they always have been), but to others they just want the degree and the uni experience, which is fine.

With regards to mentioning that it's a RG uni, it's a way for the OP to say that they went to a good uni and got a first there, but without outing the uni they've gone to.

And just anecdotally, I have applied to jobs and currently work in a job where they will, when sifting through CVs to hire graduates, look for firsts and for RG unis as well as other highly respected unis. Sadly there are so many graduates nowadays employers can be picky. I don't think it's right I know so many creative, intelligent, well rounded people who didn't go to uni at all, but when you have hundreds of CVs you have to filter them somehow.

But, yes, fight it. And try to find out whether they announce your grade at the ceremony (they did at mine) as that would be the bit that really bothered me!

BigBirthdayGloom · 06/07/2014 19:11

My first thought when reading this thread is that people are confusing achievement with attainment. A first is an amazing level of attainment, but it really isn't a measure of achievement since no one really knows how hard people have to work or what they have to overcome to get there. Sometimes not even the graduate themselves. I never feel comfortable with one grade from one university being set above another grade from another university. And I've no reason to be bitter-I have a 2.1 from a "top" university. Challenges to overcome - undiagnosed (until late thirties) adhd, family traumas and instability. Advantages-naturally pretty academic and family comfortable so no need to work for money at uni. So perhaps I got more than I should have, perhaps I underachieved. Point is-should I have gone up before the 2:2's and after the firsts? Who knows?

Lagoonablue · 06/07/2014 19:18

God there are some snidey people on here. 'Does it really matter?' What a horrible thing to say. Of course it matters.

Some people just like to pick fights.

bluebeanie · 06/07/2014 19:19

Fight it. I worked so hard and was borderline. I was told I got a 2.1. Graduated thinking that was my grade. A 2.1 is still great obviously, but I'd aimed for a 1st. Was really gutted as 1sts got special mention. So... weeks go by and my certificate came in the post. I'd got a 1st after all! I was so happy, but I felt robbed.

Me624 · 06/07/2014 19:47

Another one here where we graduated in alphabetical order but firsts were announced and marked in the programme with a *. Fight for it OP, I was bloody proud of my first and would have been very annoyed if it hadn't been recognised at the ceremony in front of my family.

BloominNora · 06/07/2014 20:54

I'd fight it and be incredibly pissed off. I got a first and it was listed in the programme and I got to go up alone with the handshake etc.

But then I went to one of those shite, formed in the early 90's, used to be a college of higher ed universities and did what a degree which some people would sneer at as being 'disney' so it probably wouldn't have mattered that much

Original poster

ClaudiaGooselover · 06/07/2014 22:57

I mentioned it being a RG Uni because you would think with the image of themselves they try and portray, that they'd be able to get the classification of degrees correct. They can tell everyone they're one of the best in the world but can lose a whole assignment and all record of it? That's just crap.

I don't know how people are announced. I'll ask someone who graduated last year to see how much of a fuss I should kick up!

OP posts:

RevoltingPeasant · 06/07/2014 23:04

OP I'd go straight to your head of dept.

Academics don't sort out processing the grades but we can make a fuss on behalf of our students. Academics will also know how graduation works as we attend about a million ceremonies in our careers :)

I'd personally write to the HoD and cc admin saying there has been x mistake, admin have admitted it, and you want it rectified prior to graduation (more politely than that though!).

Let us know how you get on. And congrats, it is a massive achievement.

CocktailQueen · 06/07/2014 23:11

Congrats, op! And agree, def fight for it!you got a first and it should be acknowledged.

I went to a non RG university that is consistently in the top five in the country - RG is not everything!!

Molio · 06/07/2014 23:11

Not all firsts are equal and graduating with a first from some unis would be no different from graduating with a low or middle 2.1 from others. Employers know this. Also, some courses have much easier schedules than others, splitting exams between the second and third years as opposed to taking eight or nine papers back to back in the final year. And then there are the courses where you get assessed as you go along. It's a minefield. Also, exams at this level even at the same institiution only tell you so much about a person's academic ability; I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Mumzy · 06/07/2014 23:35

I don't understand how you understood you got a 1st and now you've been told its a 2.1. Do universities still post up the final degree grades for all to see or were you told verbally. I remember if you were borderline for grades you would have been called up for a Viva as the final decider. I thought that was pretty fair. If your grade has been affected by some admin problem then I would make them investigate it all the way.

Original poster

ClaudiaGooselover · 06/07/2014 23:41

Mumzy I wasn't told I had a first. I knew I had because all my assignments received a first so once my dissertation did too I assumed I had a first overall. Their mistake has bought it down to a 2:1 because a module worth a significant number of credits is on their records as a 0.

OP posts:

perfectstorm · 06/07/2014 23:46

YANBU at all. And my uni was alphabetical, and I was perfectly happy with my own 2.1 - but if I'd got a First I would (rightly) have been incredibly proud and wanted that worked-for achievement acknowledged. They have a bloody nerve casually implying it doesn't matter. It plainly does.

My own uni didn't put class on the certs at all, btw. Have often wondered if that's changed since, given the two people I know for a fact lying that they had a 2.1 when they didn't, and who have built careers on that lie ever since.

I hope this is sorted for you, because of course this matters, and hugely. It's a significant rite of passage, and you have performed outstandingly well. Why would you want to be lumped with the bloody-good-averages instead?

Mumzy · 06/07/2014 23:57

Surely if you submitted your assignment electronically you will have prove you did it on a certain date and it arrived in someone's mail box?

Original poster

ClaudiaGooselover · 07/07/2014 00:01

It was before the electronic submissions system was introduced in 2012. I have the mark and comments sheet clearly stating it was submitted early and received a first. They're looking into it but its unlikely to be rectified before graduation 'because of the holiday period'

OP posts:

botanicbaby · 07/07/2014 00:21

YANBU sounds incredibly incompetent of them - e.g. for a student to consistently get a first for every assignment (I'd love to know what course you did), you'd think someone would have spotted that it was very, VERY odd for that student to receive zero marks for not bothering to hand in a module that was worth a significant amount of credits. That is so unlikely that such a student would do that.

However, YABU for making the assumption that a Russell Group uni is run any better than than others. Also, can't believe some posters think RG is a 'mumsnet' thing, is it because some posters take great pains to point it out or something?! (just don't expect them to get your grades right, eh!)

RuddyDuck · 07/07/2014 01:49

It's so long ago that I can't remember whether or not the class of degree was mentioned at my graduation ceremony. It is stated on my degree certificate, which I was given on the day of graduation.

Dh went to Cambridge, and got a Double First. His degree certificate just states that he's got a degree, doesn't mention the classification.

OP, if the class of degree is mentioned at your graduation ceremony, either by calling people up first or stating it in the programme then you need to insist the uni sorts it before the ceremony. It needs to be sorted one way or another anyway. And whether or not it's an RG uni is completely irrelevant....

Molio · 07/07/2014 08:10

Did you take no exams at all? How does that work? Are some degrees really based purely on assignments .

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