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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to wonder if this incident from many years ago was in fact a sexual assault or 'just' typical teenage boy behaviour?

40 replies

emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 19:39

Following on from a very interesting post over in Chat...

This afternoon while reading that thread I very suddenly remembered an unpleasant incident that happened when I was 18. I got very drunk at a party and my friend's boyfriend (who was also a friend of mine) led me upstairs to the bathroom, pushed my head down and made me give him a blowjob. I was very sheltered, had never had a proper boyfriend, and so I didn't have the faintest clue what this actually was IYSWIM. All I knew was that I had to do it because he seemed to be expecting it, that he'd taken me there for that exact purpose and that I wasn't going to be leaving that bathroom until I'd done what he wanted.

I think I remember being mostly concerned, because he was boasting about it to another friend of his later that night iirc, that his girlfriend was going to find out (she was away at the time).

I don't think I ever thought of it as 'assault'. I felt grubby and yucky and I loathed what I can remember of it, but I just thought it was my own stupid fault as I'd been drinking and because I went willingly to the bathroom (well, willingly as in I didn't refuse to go, I have a dim memory of him just leading me up the stairs and me being too drunk to do anything else) and, I suppose, because I didn't actually say No at any point. Again, it just didn't occur to me that No was any kind of an option, even if I'd been sober enough to voice it.

Anyway, I have a daughter of my own now (a baby, mercifully) and reading the stories over on the other thread, most of which are way way way more distressing than anything I've experienced, plus of course now remembering this strange incident, I'm just wondering if this sort of horrible thing lies ahead for her, inevitably, when she starts hanging around with boys many (hopefully many, many many!!!) years down the line.

Also it occurred to me that if I ever heard someone had done to my daughter in later years what this 'boy' (young man) did to me, I'd want to kill him. And I'd probably want to tell the police... but would that be wrong? And I still find it very, very very hard to accept that what he did was a sexual assault of any kind.

So in your views - was it actually an assault, or 'just' a mucky teenage boy pushing his luck? How normal is this sort of thing?

Have felt really yucky all day the more I've thought about it and wish I'd had a gentler initiation into the adult world... have never particularly enjoyed sex with my lovely, gently DH and I suppose I'm now wondering if this is a small part of the reason why?

OP posts:
CoffeeTea103 · 03/07/2014 19:42

Oh come on are you really asking? Off course it was, if this was your dd how would you view it?

emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 19:43

Coffee, yes, the ridiculous thing (have just re-read my post) is that I AM really asking... the weird thing is that it really really never occurred to me that this is what it was. Absolutely if it were my DD or a friend I would KNOW what it was... I really, really can't get my head around the idea that it wasn't just something I 'accidentally' consented to by being drunk and by being there.
I know it sounds stupid, it makes no sense really.

OP posts:
MonkeyDLuffy · 03/07/2014 19:44

Definitely assualt.

CoffeeTea103 · 03/07/2014 19:47

He 'pushed' you which means he forced you. That horrible person assaulted you and then boasted about what he did. It is not normal teenage behaviour.

emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 19:48

It's even weirder because we still have friends in common and I see him every few years, at an old friend's wedding or similar, and I honestly hadn't even remembered this incident until reading the thread in Chat...

Is this kind of thing 'normal'??? By which I suppose I mean is it common? Do all/most teenage girls have a similar tale to tell? I'm racking my brains to think of similar things that might have happened to friends of mine... not coming up with much (that I know, anyway; I only told one friend about this when it happened and it was more because I felt so awful about 'betraying' the boy's girlfriend)

OP posts:
emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 19:49

Coffee, thank you, I'm very reassured to hear such strong words actually. I feel stupid that I don't even know what's normal and what's not!!

OP posts:
VisualiseAHorse · 03/07/2014 19:51

I think it is very common.

I experienced assault as a 14 year old. Never occured to me until maybe last year that it was assault.

NoArmaniNoPunani · 03/07/2014 19:53

It's not normal, it was assault. Unfortunately it does seem to be common :(

WhoDaresWins · 03/07/2014 19:53

If you didn't protest or resist then I can see why you feel doubtful.

But the truth is you were drunk enough to be easily led and he took advantage of that.

emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 19:53

Sorry Visualise :(
It's a very very strange thing that brains seem to do, to be able to completely see the truth of a situation if other people experience it but to find it all so blurry when it's yourself.

OP posts:
emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 19:55

Yes, that's exactly it, Who Dares, I neither protested nor resisted... I think, really, that the moral of this story is that I need to teach DD, when she's old enough, to PROTEST AND RESIST if she feels something is wrong.
Oh, and not to be stupid enough to get so blind drunk in the first place.

OP posts:
MonkeyDLuffy · 03/07/2014 19:55

I think it's a lot more common than a lot of people realise sadly.

I'm sorry this happened to you Brew

Lweji · 03/07/2014 19:55

He wasn't even that young, as he must have been around 18 as well, so certainly old enough to know better.
I think your reaction wasn't that unusual, even down to almost having forgotten about it.

EmmaLL25 · 03/07/2014 19:56

I work in field of sexual health and yes this would now be classes as assault because the law now expects people to get consent, not expect someone to say no IYSWIM. You were incapable of giving consent due to alcohol too.

Sadly though I bet the lad thought nothing of it. It is only in the last few years in sex education that young people are being explicitally told these things. In Scotland, where I am, the law only changed in 2009 to reflect these things about consent and alcohol.

I can empathise as I can think of things that happened to me as a teen that I now realise I didn't want but didn't say no to, didn't know how or that I could.

I'm sorry this happened. If it continues to upset you please do seek help.

Your daughter does not have to expect this. Young people are better educated (mostly) and there are much stronger messages out there about consent.

emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 19:57

Lweji, yes, he was 19, so it's true that he was old enough to know better.

However I knew what he was like (well, actually, I didn't know exactly what he was like as I had no idea about sex of any kind, really, but I knew he was a terrible flirt and constantly cheating on his girlfriend) so I was probably old enough to know better too.

Really wish my parents hadn't kept me quite so sheltered, I think I'd have been much better off with a bit more info from my mum.

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emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 19:59

Emma, thanks for your v nice and thoughtful post :)

Yep, you're absolutely right, he thought absolutely nothing of it himself, beyond it being a great story to tell people.

Uck, am remembering now that I swallowed (sorry, TMI) as I had absolutely no idea what else to do with all the stuff in my mouth :( God, I was absolutely as naive as anything, wasn't I? Blush

OP posts:
CoffeeTea103 · 03/07/2014 20:00

Speak to your dd about being careful with her body. She may not be forced into doing something but if she is uncomfortable about it then no way should she be under pressure to do it. Also the dangers of alcohol and the people who she socializes with are very important.

DameEdnasBridesmaid · 03/07/2014 20:02

emerald something very similar happened to me. I went to his house willingly, flattered that I had been asked. He was a couple of years older and very good looking.

Just as you describe, he pinned me down and tried to force me to give him a blow job, I didn't even know what a BJ was, I froze and think I resisted. He was apologetic afterwards and walked me home.

It clearly was assault but I didn't know that then.

Lweji · 03/07/2014 20:04

But being a flirt is not the same as being a rapist or a sex abuser.
Unless that was other girls minimising what he had done, or him bragging of "seducing" girls, rather than giving the full story.

myusernameis · 03/07/2014 20:05

I would class that as assault not 'typical teenage boy behaviour' - that kind of excuse normalises those awful acts and allows people to get off the hook.

Sadly that kind of thing happens far too often. There have been a few threads recently that have got me thinking about similar events and making me worry about the possibility of having a daughter go through the same stuff.

We have to educate our daughters (and of course our sons) that they deserve respect and to teach them properly about consent. You may not have explicitly said 'no' when that happened to you but he took you upstairs away from everyone else when you were clearly too drunk to have resisted. It took me a few years to understand consent is more than 'no means no'. I think we need to explain this to our children.

I know it's hard to come to terms with the fact you were assaulted but please remember that you did nothing wrong. Don't dwell on what you could have or should have done differently. You can't change what happened but you can certainly be a part of educating future generations. Sorry I hope that doesn't come across as glib.

OxfordBags · 03/07/2014 20:05

'Old enough to know better' is a rape excuse. YOU were not responsible for any of what happened. He assaulted you, nothing you did caused it to happen. It had nothing to do with what you knew or didn't know. You weren't taught how not to get sexually assaulted, because the responsibility for preventing sexual assaults lies entirely with those who might assault someone sexually.

It is sadly common, but that doesn't make it less of a crime. Most assault or rape victims don't scream or shout or attack back or anything, because the body freezes. Fighting against a sexual attacker always escalates the events, and the body knows to stay still and quiet and endure so as not to make things even worse.

I think you should cut the ties that mean you still see him now and then.

emeraldgirl1 · 03/07/2014 20:10

Thanks v much indeed everyone for your v helpful and very measured posts.

In all honesty I think I was expecting most people to say, of course it wasn't an assault, you silly girl, you shouldn't have got that drunk in the first place and if you didn't want to give him a blowjob you should just have yelled to be let out of the bathroom until someone came to help'.

OP posts:
EElisavetaofBelsornia · 03/07/2014 20:11

I had a similar experience as a young girl and it took me a couple of years of counselling 20 years on to recognise it as being rape. When there were stories about assaults on the news one of my parents would inevitably say "why was she out at that time of night"? I think I internalised assault being the fault of the woman, and maybe you have?

Yes sadly we will need to teach our DDs to say no, loudly and firmly, but girls will only stop being assaulted when boys stop doing what your 'friend' did. Lets teach our DSs about enthusiastic, ongoing participation (I learned on the Feminism page that consent is the very lowest bar) and not to assault girls.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. As further details are recurring in your mind you may benefit from some support, GPs can refer for counselling. I got some through work too, and then paid myself. Rape Crisis are also great.

ElephantsNeverForgive · 03/07/2014 20:12

Not uncommon I fear. DF lost her virginity to a man who turned consensual hugs and fingers into PIV.

To my mind that's rape as he didn't ask, didn't check if she was on the pill (this is late '80's so condoms weren't the norm).

I wouldn't say this to her. To her it was and still is a happy memory of having sex with a drop dead gorgeous bloke who was way out her league, who tried it on slightly.

They were great mates and he wasn't nasty to her in anyway, just used his looks in a way that those of us with more feminist edges realise is wrong.

EElisavetaofBelsornia · 03/07/2014 20:14

I agree with everytho(Oxford Bags