To not have a second ivf cycle?

[Dontmakemecometovegas]

Dh thinks we should - he thinks it's an odds game and if you roll the dice enough times it will happen.

But we were told afte our first cycle that not only do dh's sperm have two heads my eggs are also hard boiled (at only 31) so our chances are low.
I was very ill from the first cycle and am still suffering now.

And deep deep down my heart knows it isn't destined to be.
We don't want to adopt btw before anyone suggests that, not at the moment anyway. It's all a bit too raw.

Aibu? I just can't face it. It's so hard, I really want a baby but I don't want to have ivf again with a likely failure again at the end of it.

Yanbu, I think that it is the woman's decision as it is so much harder on the woman's body than the man's.

I can understand the opinion that it's an odds game, themost promising statistics I found were 50/50 but that was with 5 day blastocysts which obviously not everyone has.

I think in your situation you need to first consider your own feelings, then consider your dc's feelings and then consider your dp's feelings.

How recent is it? You do find that as time goes on you heal and then sometimes have the strength to have another go.

I think tbh that it is a harder decision to stop than to keep going. I also think that you are never quite at the same stage as your partner - I always seemed to be ahead of mine.

Counselling really helps untangle your feelings and gives you somewhere to vent. Does your clinic offer this? It's one of the reasons that I can't praise bham women's enough - plenty of free counselling.

Your husband sounds like he is way behind - talking about numbers games etc like people who don't know about if do. Were you honest with him about how much you hated the treatment? Did it impact much on him?

Give yourself time to recover and stand aside while I hairdryer blast/shout at him to let you do that.

Is there any way you could go to another clinic?

I think if you can't face it again though, then you can't.

My new clinic is an hour away too but it's so much better so it's worth the extra travel. Would that be by car or train? If you can't face it then it's your decision to make.

I really did feel like you until I spoke to my new doctor. Are there any free open days you could go to to get a feel for it?

Have you looked at ARGC in L

London? Best results in the country AND the patients they have, have usually failed elsewhere so it's not like they have easy cases. It's very rigorous but you're dosed daily individually so they get amazing results. It's 3 weeks out of your life and at your age a 70% chance per cycle! And your husband is right, it really is a cumulative odds numbers game so you may as well stack them in your favour.

Sorry, not 70% success per cycle, it's actually 80%! It's the closest thing you can do to buying your own baby.

www.argc.co.uk/ivf-treatment-results

ARGC are great but they are very hardcore. Daily bloods (I used to get there are 7am before going to work), with a second set of bloods when you got close to EC (so late lunch rushing up to Marylebone). Daily changes to your drugs routine. They get great results (I got pg on my 2nd go there but sadly had a mc) but are not for the faint hearted. Not saying that OP is, but it sounds like a gentler approach would suit her.

OP, I had multiple cycles before having DS. I was fortunate in that the IVF process had no impact on me physically/mentally (other than weight gain due to steroids) and we could afford it. It was DH who pushed me to do another, final cycle when I was on the floor after another BFN, and I am very glad that I did as DS wouldn't be here otherwise.

I really feel for you OP and YADNBU

However... A couple of considerations - sorry if you've already been through all this. Which stimming drug were you on? I also had surprise crap eggs when going for ICSI due to DH's sperm probs. I was on gonal f and we were told that firstly, it's hard to say whether all my eggs will be rubbish or if it was a bad cohort / month as it was the first cycle. The Doc also said that menopur tend to yield better quality eggs, gonal f produce higher numbers. He has suggested if we are to do it again, to switch to menopur, at a higher dose than gonal f (to solve the possible lower numbers). Did they give any reason for the surprise poor quality? Was your AMH level ok?

Also, although I completely appreciate the bottom line is, it was a failed cycle, and you must be devastated, considering the problems with sperm and your eggs, the number of embryos you got is actually pretty good and therefore doesn't mean that a further cycle is so unlikely to succeed. I just say this as out of 11 eggs, only 4 of mine were usable and DH's sperm had got progressively worse and we only had one emby fertilise normally. We had a 2 day transfer and things were obviously looking pretty dismal. It did work though, and though I know we were so, so lucky and probably wouldn't be again, it does show that as well as being a numbers game, it does only take one emby. Ours was only grade 2/3.

AFAIK, your clinic should still offer the free counselling following the end of a cycle, it could be really helpful to go and have a talk to someone, with or without your DH.

I'm really sorry, it is completely understandable to feel how you do, IVF is so gruelling emotionally, let alone with all the physical stuff you had thrown at you as well.

Oriunda you're right, it's full on. But it's only for a few weeks. We had 2 cycles there and got three babies!

I don't buy the "gentle" approach cos it doesn't give the results and ultimately that's what matters. I know that sounds harsh but the most gruelling and expensive cycles are the ones that don't work.

How many did you put back?
What happened to the others?
I saw oxford do ivm which means you dont need to take the drugs. But it has a lower success rate
How did they realise you needed assisted hatching (i thought icsi usually helped this

I'd agree with Bluetroublethree and look at ARGC. We had treatment there last year and I fell pregnant with twins who are now asleep in the bedroom next door on my first ever IVF cycle. Yes they are full on but personally I didn't find it that bad so don't be put off by people saying how intensive it is. As a caveat to that though I've never had an NHS cycle so have nothing to compare the "intensity" of ARGC to.

It is however extremely expensive, our one cycle cost £18k, you would need to realistically budget £15-20k.

Wow that's pricey! I think we paid £8k first time and £12k the second. I didn't have the heavy duty ivig/humira stuff, just a fairly straightforward protocol. They changed my treatment the second time based on what they'd learned the first time so we got twins on the second go. I begged them to put 3 back but the consultant sensibly refused!

OP, you have time at 31 to regroup and really think about what you want to do. I pushed myself through 4 cycles in less than 12 months because of my age (I turned 38 just after I got my BFP). Give yourself some time to deal with the failed cycle and figure out with your husband what you really want to do.

BTW, my embies were always on the slow side. The one in me now was only a 5 celler at day 3.

I would say that if the OP struggled physically with the cycle she did, the ARGC would be a bad idea. It's incredibly hardcore. I knew it wasn't for me. I know several people who have been there and many have had BFPs but every single one has miscarried. I know anecdotes =/= data, but that combined with the intensity of cycling there put me off. It doesn't sound like the OP is in London anyway, if the next clinic is an hour away. I do think it is worthwhile looking at another clinic though. It's important to have confidence in the people treating you. Maybe once you have had more time to regroup, the travel will seem more manageable.

I see some other posters have mentioned some of the conception threads. I am on a couple of the long-running ones and we have really helped one another through the shitfest of assisted conception. There are a few with different feels to them. There should be one to suit you if that sort of support might help. There is also an "egg buddies" thread too specifically for folks who are doing IVF. I learned a lot and got a lot of support from those threads.

catinbootz thanks!. :) It has been a helluva a journey and it's not over yet (pregnancy complications) but we are very luck to be where we are.

op sorry for your experience.

I've had four cycles at my very average local clinic and have one dd as a result. Could your dh see a urologist to see if his sample can be improved? I know the pain of failure, but one cycle is early days to give up

I agree that the ARGC gets the results and normally I would recommend. However given that OP said she suffered panic attacks etc I just don't think it's for her. I had Ivig, the full works, so the cycle was massively expensive. I finally got DS via Dr. Gorgy who is even more full on (LIT etc). My first pregnancy (also mc) was at a clinic where they just gave you a weekly follicle scan and you knew your dates for EC etc in advance. Very different in style and more relaxed.

OP, you could try acupuncture to help you relax (go to one that deals in fertility). Some women swear by it. Didn't work for me (I stayed as stiff as a board the whole time!) but a lot of ladies had a session pre and post ET.

Maybe so. I think I remember how desperate I was and the intensity made me feel like I was absolutely doing everything I could, and therefore I could rest easier knowing I'd thrown everything at it.

Hello OP.
For various reasons, I've been around a lot of women doing IVF on a professional basis.
I would say that IVF can be extremely stressful experience and that stress should never be underestimated. It also put a lit of stress on the body of the woman.

It us still early days and despite the clinic pushing for another round ASAP, I round make sure you have fully recovered first. Then you can decide what you want to do.
I would also make sure you have all the chances on your side. There is a lot you can do with diet for example to improve fertility and to improve the quality if the sperm.

And maybe if you don't trust the clinic you have been to, go and get some advice with another clinic. Embryos that have divided to 6cells aren't doing badly in my books. I would expect them to be 4 cells at 3 days transfer.

But most importantly you need to take the decision that feels right for you. In he same way that it's easy for a man to push a woman to get pregnant because it's not his body, it's easy for your DH to say 'let's just try again'. You need to be fully on board and comfortable with the decision. At least because it will make it easier for you to deal with the process again and being less stressed is increasing the chances if the IVF working!

Hi
Sorry for slight delay in posting.

I was on a menopur last time but there wasn't much development for the first 10 days (I was on the lowest possible dose) they then upped the dose and in the following three day the follicles grew very quickly.
They said they would give me a higher dose next time which made me worry about overstimulation as I did get quite a few eggs even on the low dose, although stimmed for a couple of extra days.

I had two put back, the remaining ones gave up the ghost on day 4 -none made it to blastocyst. Not very promising really. I was short protocol.

Sorry - my current clinic is an hour away. The next possible option is two hours away so a four hour round trip, I don't think it's really a viable option. But I have quite low faith in my current clinic.

Have come on today - dh wants to go for it again. My main worry is that (and I know it's irrational) I will develop OHSS, have a stroke and die. I've convinced myself that having Ivf will kill me.
Please remind me to get a grip.

I can't decide which I want more: a baby or to never have to go through Ivf again. It's a very tough call.

Oh and we've tried every diet and vitamin going. Sadly nothing has made any difference. Dh's count remains high but motility is only 20% and morphology only 2%. And my eggs are crap too let's not forget.

They said the eggs had a really hard shell to them and even if we had been making embryos they wouldn't have been able to break out.m

Even more galling is the fact that I work with families that have a range of issues. Loads of them are obese, smoke, drink, take drugs, eat bad diets and still they have several children no worries.

This leads me to believe that you're either fertile or not. And we're not.

I think you will regret it if you don't think try again. I think you want to and are trying to protect yourself from the disappointment maybe. I know That feeling. I'm sure that's why my sex drive is virtually non existent. If I don't get pg I can't miscarry again. Twisted logic but infertility does strange things to us xxx.

I need fertility treatment. For various reasons I'm now 37 and still not even had clomid yet (started trying at 27). I am a couple of months away from referral to a new clinic though as I am 37 I haven't needed to wait as long. I had a break while I was at uni and almost finished now so back on the saddle seriously now I have a proper job and all (well will have in Sept lol).

When we were seeing the fertility clinic I didn't think I was emotionally ready for even clomid. I have autoimmune issues and have been fighting to get that diagnosed before treatment. So far I have lost that battle. I'm waiting for a referral to a new consultant at a different hospital so hopefully I may get somewhere there. I have had recurrent miscarriages so for me it is a little bit different. But i feel there is no point having treatment until my autoimmune issues are sorted and treated (looking like lupus but very hard to diagnose). My amh was low a couple of years ago. God only knows what it is now.

Good luck with what you decide. Xxx

The only time I got a (very mild) case of ohss was when I got 26 eggs, and even then it didn't stop egg transfer. A lot of clinics aim for about 12 eggs or so which should not result in overstimulation.

If you are unhappy with your clinic then perhaps look around for another (or consider going abroad and make it a holiday). It does sound like you could do with some reassurance though to help your anxiety.