To be severely pissed off at the comments re Rolf Harris' victims & compensation?

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Bit of background 1st - I know quite a bit about 'compensation culture' as I've worked within the claims industry in my job for over 20 years. Not specifically criminal injuries type of claims, but I'm 'well versed' in the process, how it works etc.

Watching a discussion earlier on Loose Women (I know, in know) and I was really shocked with the general consensus of both the panel & audience that the victims of Harris' abuse shouldn't be able to claim compensation as it 'doesn't change what happened' and to even think about that prior to conviction gives the accused the 'stick' of using money as motivation for the accusations in the 1st place.

Given my background, I have quite strong views about what warrants a claim for compensation and in the case of victims of abuse, I absolutely 100% think they are entitled to pursue a claim against the perpetrator of the abuse, especially where they have the means. The impact of that abuse on those victims is, in many if not most cases, significant, long term, and extremely damaging in many aspects of those lives affected. Knowing the things that are taken into account when 'valuing' compensation, abuse victims more than many 'tick' the boxes required to warrant compensation as a result of what they've endured (and in the case of historical abuse, that's exacerbated by the length of time between the abuse happening and any action taken which results in a conviction).

So why do some people, generally, feel that in the case of abuse victims, compensation shouldn't be pursued, or isn't warranted? The impression Im getting is that this is a commonly held view - but I thought id check what others think about this, as I really cannot fathom the mindset which seems to condemn victims for even considering pursuing claims for compensation.

I fully expect to get a flaming for watching Loose Women (and generally it's not a programme I watch) but that aside, is the general view that compensation isn't warranted in these situations?

Compensation should be available to anyone who needs the money to compensate them for injuries caused by the person they're suing. So you get an std, pregnant, internal injuries as a result of rape, you should get as much as that person has. You get a broken nose from someone, you should get enough for cosmetic surgery and a bit more for the inconvience of having to walk around with a wonky nose and enduring surgery.

Nobody should be compensated for having their bum patted, that's just ridiculous.

The problem with being rewarded for anything that does not require physical proof is that it encourages people to lie. Some people will do anything for free money, they'll rob houses, banks and lie about the neighbour diddling them if they think they'll get away with it. It invites all those with no moral compass and desire for easy money to make stuff up.

""I hope they bankrupt him. He won't need it anyway as I expect he will live out his final days in jail.""

The NHS has been very quick in issuing an apology.

So, I think if compensation is sought, it will be from public funds, also.

It was the NHS that gave a lot of these men access to the vulnerable and then their staff members covered up the wrong doing, whether it was actual abuse, or watching the patients etc getting undressed etc.

RH's friends, especially his closest friend are already saying that they are sorry he has been ill for do long and they didn't know.

It's been a struggle to work out compensation for Hillsborough etc, this is far more complex and it is clear that once again, institutions that should be trust worthy (and their staff) have failed in their duty.

And there I thought we were doing so well to have a reasonable discussion... You think all this is over a pat on the the arse?

Bluebell, interesting that you use the word "reward" in your post, these are victims that you are talking about.

The institutions failed in their duty of care towards it's Service Users.

I can't help feeling that the statements issued have been damage limitation and not meant, or fully acknowledged their role in the abuse happening.

I think I'd go after compensation from his own money, but I don't see how I'd be entitled to any money from elsewhere

I never said it shouldn't be available, I said I don't understand. I had a lot of therapy - to the tune of thousands of pounds worth - to deal with my past. I would maybe claim compensation for that but I couldn't physically accept it. I am coming from this from a very emotionally invested angle, so please be gentle!

""I think I'd go after compensation from his own money, but I don't see how I'd be entitled to any money from elsewhere""

Because the children (or in JS case) the patients were set up to be abused and the staff kept quiet and isolated/warned those abused, to keep quiet.

People knew that JS was an abuser, yet managers let him invite RH (and we now know other abusers) onto certain wards, to meet victims.

This went beyond the actions of individuals, we have another "Culture" problem, akin to the one uncovered in the Stephen Lawrence case.

Apologies MyFairyKing.

I think it's often difficult to understand how compensation is defined, and possibly the reasons why one person gets x when another might get 10 times that. There are many factors taken into account, and sometimes it's s v blunt tool used to come up with a figure deemed relevant or reasonable. And it's always subjective as to how that can be defined, depending on how you view compensation as a whole. I don't think money helps everyone, but I don't think abuse victims should be barred from making claims if that's what they feel they want, or need, to do.

I find it strange that a financial amount can be put on abuse. There are obvious costs like therapy or loss of earnings but you can't really quantify it can you? I'm in the fortunate position of never having gone through abuse but why do victims go through another legal trial etc? Is it because they think that their abuser will be affected more by the financial loss rather than being in prison? Is it to stop them having money to launch appeals and enjoying it when they are freed?

I think in cases like these, people confuse the money grabbing legal industry's image with the victims being greedy. I don't think that the victims are being greedy but I think that it is natural that many will feel cynical when lawyers are involved.

Before anyone flames me I know that there are many lawyers performing legal work that protects and improves the lives of people.

You don't have to apologise. I have no problem with it being available, I just could not fathom applying or even wanting the money.

I agree with your comment about the blunt tool to come up with a figure. I'd imagine whatever it was, I'd feel insulted in a 'is this all my suffering is worth?' sort of way.

Personally I think in historic cases such as this, where the only evidence seems to be their word you can't allow compensation. It does give people an incentive to lie. If it were taken out of the equation, more people would believe them from the off.

I think it's unfortunate that lawyers are necessary, and while some may be considered 'money grabbing' or vultures, it is sometimes a necessary perceived evil to get victims the means required to rebuild shattered lives. What that would entail will differ from person to person. I've always been in the position of dealing with those who represent claimants and despite my sometimes cynical view of some lawyers/legal firms, they absolutely do a vital role for people who need their expertise.

Compensation doesn't always help, it's not always wanted, and it will never change what happened to those who have been victims. But I understand that while the system that deals with this isn't perfect, it at least recognises the damage caused to victims and can help someone rebuild/get the help they need/get a step up in life they've otherwise not had due to the impact abuse has had on their life.

Fifi, there often will be corroborating evidence in the victims medical records, especially where they have struggled mentally as a result of the abuse. And even if they haven't verbalised the root cause of certain difficulties they have endured through life as a result of historical abuse, it can certainly be pieced together from many sources of information/statements. You should not assume that historical abuse leaves no impact or trail in someone's life because it happened a long time ago.

What was the evidence here though? Even if medical records suggest something occurred years ago, what evidence other than their word is there that it was the person in question? I honestly don't know what evidence was produced against Rolf other than what the victims say happened.

fifi - the jury heard all the evidence and, I believe, convicted on every count. That should be enough for you. What more do you want?

I don't agree with victims getting compensation because I think justice should be enough. Unless there has been financial loss, I can't see what good it would do.

What happens when people have criminal acts committed against them by people who haven't got a pot to piss in, where does the money come from then?

Pain and suffering is subjective, and the same thing happening to two separate people can affect them completely differently. I don't think you can accurately put a price tag on it.

I say this as someone who has been abused btw, I don't think I deserve someone else's money. Justice yes, money, no.

Nobody should be compensated for having their bum patted, that's just ridiculous.

And that is the problem. Attitudes like Bluebelljumpsoverthemoon's. That's why the motherfuckers got away with it for so long. There was a woman on Radio 2 today who described what Rold Harris had done to her during a photoshoot. Putting his hands inside her underwear and her bra. She was 15 at the time. But of course she shouldn't get compensation for a pat on the arse should she.

I really hate people with this kind of attitude. Maybe when you've been through something similar Bluebelljumpsoverthemoon (not that I would wish that on you at all) you can come back and tell us how it was "just a pat on the arse".

WooWoo the compensation comes from the criminal injuries compensation authority link here

It's not the case that only the victims who have been abused by wealthy/famous people get compensation. Any victim of a crime, affected physical or mentally can claim.

fifi669 do you really think people make this shit up for the hell of it? That they'd put themselves through being cross examined on the witness stand when it wasn't true? Have you ever gotten up on the witness stand in court and given evidence? Ever given evidence over something that was very traumatic? The amount of people who do actually "cry rape" and make stuff like this up are very, very rare. More often than not people are telling the truth.

The tide is turning and we're only just starting to see the massive truth and how many paedophiles there actually are out there. I dread to think how many more "national treasures" will start to come out of the woodwork and be found out in the future.

If I was one of those women I would take him, and the people who'd supported him every day in court, for every penny they had.

I would then decide what to do with it.

Maybe I'd have a bonfire. My only regret would be that I couldn't put them all on top of it.

Fifi, Harris' daughter's friend became an alcoholic, she possibly had lots of treatment, counselling. Records are taken by HCPs during these sessions, these notes form part of medical records and all of that information can be accessed with permission if it can provide a timeline from where problems started. If Rolf Harris was mentioned 20 years ago during discussions in therapy, it busts the myth of this woman 'jumping on the bandwagon' of the 'celebrity witch hunt' as her motivation for pursuing the allegation. And besides, Harris' own letter damned him. He might well claim she was 18 and consented, but I'd hazard a guess there was some chronological evidence that was more convincing than the pitiful letter he sent to her father begging forgiveness.

I'm on your wavelength limited

I think the use of money for compensation encourages a compensation culture and people to make bogus complaints. I think that seeing the person who wronged you be brought to justice and go to gaol should be compensation enough. Money should only be given if people have been robbed. I think it demeans the justice system if people can make money out of winning a case that had nothing really to do with money like sexual harrassment.
Seeing your abuser be brought to justice should be the end of it.