to think we're heading for another teacher recruitment crisis?

[KeepCalmAndLOLKittens]

I don't deny that I'm speaking from purely personal experience here, but after a brief increase in the number of teachers joining the profession during the recession, I am seeing evidence of another shortage.

I thought I'd have difficulty getting back into FT work at the top of the upper pay scale, but not only was I offered a post with protected pay; shortly afterwards I was asked to fill another by a local school.

My current post is proving difficult to appoint. Only one candidate came to interview and had previously been unsuccessful. It has been readvertised with very little interest. This is a good school; a pleasant working environment in a large town, accessible from a major city.

Angered by the latest bullshit plans to bring retired engineers and mathematicians into the profession I'm considering leaving altogether. I just searched my local newspaper's job site and found that I could earn nearly as much working a HGV driver. Not to dismiss the responsibility and skill that driving a HGV demands, it does make me wonder why I kill myself to try to achieve targets I know to be impossible while managing behaviour of the more challenging kids and having to be constantly prepared for Ofsted scrutiny.

What is to be done to address this when teachers are vilified for their holidays, for enforcing dress code, for being seen to impose fines for term time holidays and for just not being superhuman enough? Where will the teachers come from?

change, I'll try to describe a typical day.

Arrive 7.45 - get coffee (I need it), check emails, reply to emails, set up for the day

8.15 - some sort of briefing, either full staff or department or year group tutors, only Fridays are free in the mornings

8.25 - tutor time

8.45 - start teaching

So, you have your teaching.

When there is a PPA (the extra time we get which is about three hours a week, depending on job description / position) you have to: plan lessons, read and respond to emails, mark exercise books, get copying done, write reports, sort out all the other 'random' stuff such as "pupil x is ill at the moment, please provide work to do at home" or "pupil y is in isolation, get something down now", filling in stuff for house managers regarding pupils and so on. Honestly, the list of random stuff is endless.

One of my frees is also taken up by Line Management Meeting where I meet with my superior.

Then it's 3.15, by that time you are knackered, but no time for break. You get a gracious five minutes to go to the loo.

After school GCSE revision groups, department meetings, CPD meetings blah blah blah...

You manage to get home at 5.00

At home - sort out own child/ren, eat, put child/ren to bed.

7.30 - Time to relax? Oh no, there is still a huge amount to do, because how on earth are you expected to mark 25 GCSE papers in your one hour free when the other stuff was there to do? The time 'off' is just not enough and many teachers simply have to give up their evenings and weekends.

By the end of a long half-term you fall half-dead on the floor. You need at least 4 days to regain energy only to start work again for the next term prepping, sorting, planning...

So yes, we get non teaching time, but it is simply not enough with the demands of what needs doing.

It is hard, BUT it is the best job ever. If it wasn't nobody would do it, it is very rewarding. The holidays are needed, many teacher friends are regularly ill the first days of the holidays, it's so typical because your body tries to keep going and then bam, it gives up. And it gets easier. After being in the job for 10 years I can now reuse and recycle loads, so I have a better work-life balance, but basically you are running on full steam for the six weeks of term and then need the breaks to cool down and get some sort of life back.

Sorry, I don't mean it to be a critical sounding question. I just really want to know what the days are like.

Just a normal day that isn't parents evening, or the school play or something. Yes, I know there are no normal days, but a dull day in October maybe?

Arrive 8am, then what? How much teaching time, how much prep time?

Also, if the hours are so long, how on earth do the NQTs find time to do the Masters that now seem to be a requirement?

Oops cross posted off to read typical day!

I'm Primary, not secondary, but a typical day would involve

mornings-
photocopying
setting up activities for the day
any bits of marking
8.25 Department briefing

8.40 children in
Playtime (2/5 duty days)
lunchtime-45 minutes. Eat lunch and mark
3.20 children go.

After school
do club x2 week until 4pm
Staff meeting once a week
Dept meeting once a fortnight

mark-generally 30 books per lesson, often 3 lessons. You cannot ever just tick. Everything has to be carefully marked according to the marking policy (which has changed 3 times in the last year)-with 2 stars and a wish, next steps etc and corrections -all in the correct colours. This can take a good hour for one set of books-only spending 2 mins on each.

Then the 'real' work can begin.
Assessment: endless sheets to show progress. These are for the core 5 subjects and must be ticked 3 times and dated when we've seen the children meet them, them highlighted and dated again. Once a child has met, eg the 25-20 2c targets SMT have designed for reading-they will need to have a 2b sheet photocopied, stuck in and ticked. This is for every child, for maths, reading, writing, science, S+L. It takes absolutely hours and you are never properly on top of it.

There is less complicated assessment for all the foundation subjects but there still have to be done every half term and then the whole lot imputted onto the computer. That would be a sublevel for maths, reading, writing, science, S+L, geography, history, music, DT, art, gym, games, dance, RE, PHCE, ICT for every child-every half term (450 levels to be inputted every half term). It takes absolutely hours and makes your eyes go funny!

Pupil progress meetings-every term, where you have criticised for children in your class whose mothers have died, whose dads have been sent to prison, who have been taken into care etc etc, who haven't made enough progress. All details must be typed up and an intervention put in place for any child they deem to not be making enough progress. Obviously, these groups then have to be scheduled, found rooms for, planned for and then marking-usually by us.

PMR meetings-every half term-the worst of the lot. Even more tick sheets, targets you have no say in about the progress of your children and folders of evidence of every meeting you have, any club you run, any event you organise, any letter home you send must be kept. This takes hours and is such a waste of time.

Displays-have to be updated regularly. This used to be done by LSAs, but they aren't allowed any more.

Planning for PMR lesson observations-obviously, you shouldn't do anythin out of the ordinary for these lessons as we should all plan Outstanding lessons all the time, but you spend longer on theses, because if you're not up to par-you are reobserved in a week. This will continue and the words 'capability' begun to be mentioned.

Subject leadership-entailing observing knackered, demoralised colleagues teach your subject, which unless it's maths or English, barely happens! Another folder has to be kept-reports written, action plans written, reports to the governors written, evidence of everything you do kept.

By the time I've finished marking and assessing-it's usually bedtime and I haven't even thought about planning for the lessons the next day. If only I could spend all my time planning fantastic lessons? Is that not what's the most important thing!?

I wonder if there's anything I've forgotten? Feel free to chip in?

Our school recently had one applicant for a job.....a few years ago jobs were getting 50+...

SLT at my school have had to go trawling at cattle markets recruitment events for overseas trained teachers.

Wow, my head hurts.

Am I right in thinking primary school teachers have it much harder than secondary school teachers?

I see the teachers at school (primary) when I arrive to collect from after school care. 5.30pm and the teachers car park is full.

I really thought this was something I wanted to do. But I haven't put in my PCGE application because, really, it looks like much shittier job than I thought.

I earn £45,000 a year now. I finish at 4.30. OK, I sometimes have to work at the weekends or in the evenings. I can take time off for the DC though. My job isn't rewarding though. I'd happily take the pay cut for like for like hours. Not double or more hours for half the pay.

But I can't help thinking my DC would be worse off if I did this.

If you want to know a primary day try this blog but scroll down to 'Everyone thinks a teacher has it easy'- brilliant!

Sorry 'Everyone knows teachers have an easy life!' written Wed 18th June.

Sassh, not sure why you are interested in DSE related to my laptop. The point I was trying to make was that technology can be relied upon in a setting where anything other than working first time is not acceptable. This was in reply to Luggagecarousel saying that the technology she has is unreliable at best. My only point is that it doesnt have to be unreliable.

I have written on many MN teaching threads before, but what strikes me now about going to a non-teaching job (salary not far off what I would earn if I would return to teaching), is that so much of what is considered 'work', to be done in 'working hours', is (in a teaching role) regarded as a minor matter to be done in your own time.

Reading and responding to emails
Admin
Preparing and managing your workspace
Preparing for meetings
Preparing to give presentations or deliver training
Performance reviews
Preparing for performance reviews

Just a few examples...

changebags there are some benefits to secondary. You are more likely to teach more than one class in the same year group so it's possible to recycle some planning, with differentiation. You are likely to be part of a subject team (unless you teach a minor subject in a very small school) so you can share planning. Primary teachers can only do this if they teach in a bigger school with two or more classes per year. Finally, in secondary you can often reuse and adapt planning from year to year. Primary teachers can only do this if they teach the same year group over and over again.

However, you have to get to know a lot more pupils, especially if you teach a non-core subject.

I was reading the report looking at maths education in Shanghai, trying to figure out how they get such astonishing results on the PISA international league tables compared to the UK.

The point that stood out the most, for me, was that their contact time, that is the percentage of working time that they actually spend in front of a class teaching is 25-30%. In the UK, a full time teacher has a timetable where 90% of their working time is in front of kids.

No wonder they get better results than us. Teachers in the UK barely have time to go to the toilet let alone think about what they are doing. Maths teachers in Shanghai spend the majority of their time planning carefully, analysing results, thoroughly marking, observing colleagues and improving their teaching. Teacher in the UK spend the vast majority of their time lurching from one lesson to the other, a trail of hastily completed paperwork scattered behind them.

No applicants for my job - deadline passed today.

rollonthesummer, I am heartily glad I'm not a primary teacher.

I was going to post earlier but got sidetracked: I am a good teacher. My classroom management is fine. My students make reasonable progress in the skills that I deem to be most important and useful in my subject area. I can't guarantee that they will make three levels' progress but then neither do I have much say in the curriculum we currently have in place. I don't aspire to be outstanding; it's simply unsustainable.

I have realistic exodctati

Bloody post now button!

I have realistic expectations of myself and the outcomes of my students.

I am worried now though. I'm moving into a FT role in a new school. I am able to go under the radar in my current post as my lessons are good and there are no behavioural issues. However if I have to submit to the sort of scrutiny that rollonthesummer described I will have to quit.

I must do the right thing by my own DCs. I can't let them suffer for the sake of an impossible workload.

I agree rollonthesummer. That's what my life used to be like, and factor in my DS with SN as well.

Supply teaching:
Arrive between 8am and 8.20am. Everyone's delighted to see you.
Scan through someone else's planning and work out how to teach it.
If no planning, pull out the magic bag of tricks.
Sparkle with support, explanations, pace and vigour and sheer intelligence until lunchtime.
Mark through lunchtime.
Hurtle through the afternoon performance.
Tidy up the classroom.
Mark the rest of the work, but as you don't know the children it can't be in depth and the step forward is a fairly generic comment.
Leave a note for the teacher.
Go home about 4.30pm or 5ish.
Evenings, weekends and holidays free.

Absolutely worth the pay cut, I like teaching again after years of surviving the out-of-class pressures.

China has a special arrangement with the OECD, so that only selected areas are used to administer the PISA test, and results are only drawn from Shanghai. The special funding arrangements that support the teaching and learning there mean that comparisons between China and the rest of the PISA cohort are meaningless.

They do better because their conditions for teaching and learning are different. This is not to refute noblegiraffe's point, but something to think about when we're invited to flail ourselves because we're not doing as well as the Chinese.

The Chinese aren't doing as well as the Chinese.

Agree with BranchingOut.

I have lots of free lessons atm as Year 11 have left - I accordingly have a bundle of additional work (long term planning, & creating resources for the Dept.) to do which I've agreed with my HOD, & which we agree should keep me busy about 10 hours a week this half term.

Fair enough - that's instead of 8x50 minute lessons plus whatever time I'd spend prepping & marking for year 11 at home - about the same, so 800 minutes 'Year 11 time' is now 600 minutes work which I have to complete, or thereabouts.

Great, I'm over 3 hours a week better off! Go me! .

Except that I can't use my classroom to work in - other lessons have been re-roomed into it as the builders arrive as soon as Year 11 depart. I don't have an office. The staffroom contains 5 PCs & they are all in constant use.

I'm continually being interrupted, once I've bagged one, by emails/calls about the trips/theatre visits I'm organising this term & for next.

There are sundry Transition Days, work experience visits, trips, intervention with underachieving students which I'm responsible for, all of which mean that I'm actually teaching or supervising other students for big chunks of those magic 8 free periods a week I'm supposed to have acquired.

So I actually do much of my 10 hours of long term planning & resource creation on Saturday nights, between the hours of 9pm & 7am, having spent the 'freed-up' time in school on the sort of minutiae that dh, for example, does all day & which in his case is seen to constitute a full-time role...

I'm not moaning - I love this time of year, I enjoy the variety & the buzz & having lots of things to juggle. But it's true that the 'minor matters' take up an awfully major amount of time.

I used to be a trainer for a charity. I got made redundant and have struggled to find a job since. I loved teaching adults and a while ago I seriously considered the fast track rout into teaching but teaching children is so different to teaching adults that I'm not sure I'd be up to it. The hours, the unruly kids and the paperwork also put me off it too. ( as well as what teachers here wrote about the profession). It's a shame.

And do Headteachers and Heads of Departments not do anything to ensure extra hours are kept to a minimum?

We have a bit of a problem with long hours at work. I sometimes used to be in the office until 10pm. Our organisation was faced with people who were burnt out and good people were leaving in droves.

When we close a project, at the wash-up we ask the staff, how was the workload, what were the hours? We rarely deem a project a success unless it has been on time, on budget and realistic hours. We do know that there are times when working late or at home is inevitable, but we tell our project mangers these should be kept to a minimum.

We do advise things like turning off emails and phones (if someone needs you urgently they come and find you). We advise only holding meetings when they really are needed and only asking people to attend that really need to be there. It's not great, it doesn't solve all the problems. But it's something.

It just seems to me that for every one teacher there really should be two.

Why would anyone choose this as a career?

well, mostly because it's fun. Teaching is great. Being a teacher, not so much.

I'd love to be able to switch off the emails - but they have to be dealt with at some point. If a parent phones, wanting to talk to me about a trip, the office check the timetable, & if I'm not teaching, transfer the call to the staffroom. Assuming I'm in there I'd rather deal with it immediately than play a few rounds of phone tag later with another busy parent!

HTs & HODs, unfortunately, are beaten over the head by the likes of Michael wilshaw proudly proclaiming that 'if morale's at rock bottom, you know you must be doing something right.'

My HOD is stressed to buggery herself. The other HOD of a core subject, we sadly lost this term. By which I do not mean that he resigned .

I'm a primary teacher in Scotland and we'll be facing the same in about two years. The cohort due to retire in that time were apparently the largest ever cohort taken into teacher training college. Not enough students are there to replace them.

We're also going to lose a vast amount of experience when they go, combined with the shambles that is the Curriculum for Excellence... it's worrying.