to think we're heading for another teacher recruitment crisis?

[KeepCalmAndLOLKittens]

I don't deny that I'm speaking from purely personal experience here, but after a brief increase in the number of teachers joining the profession during the recession, I am seeing evidence of another shortage.

I thought I'd have difficulty getting back into FT work at the top of the upper pay scale, but not only was I offered a post with protected pay; shortly afterwards I was asked to fill another by a local school.

My current post is proving difficult to appoint. Only one candidate came to interview and had previously been unsuccessful. It has been readvertised with very little interest. This is a good school; a pleasant working environment in a large town, accessible from a major city.

Angered by the latest bullshit plans to bring retired engineers and mathematicians into the profession I'm considering leaving altogether. I just searched my local newspaper's job site and found that I could earn nearly as much working a HGV driver. Not to dismiss the responsibility and skill that driving a HGV demands, it does make me wonder why I kill myself to try to achieve targets I know to be impossible while managing behaviour of the more challenging kids and having to be constantly prepared for Ofsted scrutiny.

What is to be done to address this when teachers are vilified for their holidays, for enforcing dress code, for being seen to impose fines for term time holidays and for just not being superhuman enough? Where will the teachers come from?

Messed that up. DS awake, will repost later.

I am an arse: OFSTED's agenda is to make the measurable important instead of the important measurable. Duh.

Isnt a lot of the problem with the preparation and paperwork of teaching that technology just hasnt been embraced at all?

I dont mean just doing a few powerpoint presentations or using web based maths exercises.

There are learning management systems which help to keep on top of who has done what. Even five years ago I was working on developing web based training materials which would tell the LMS how far a student had got through a particular section.

Looking at what my DCs are doing in school and knowing what is possible is very frustrating. It is all still so paper based. Yet this is not preparation for the modern world.

GnomeDePlume

Meanwhile back in the world of teaching, many many web based systems do not take in to account special needs such as dyslexia, you can't even change the background colour of some, so if one child cannot access the system it might as well not exist.

Very few web designers have even heard of HCI never mind applied it and used beta testers with various disabilities.

Not all children come from homes with computers and internet access.

Exercise books cannot be sold down the pub or exchanged for drugs, can be used after the electric has run out and are easily transported.

LaurieFairyCake: in my region each social work post advertised attracts around 50 applications.
The bursaries for social work differ depending on whether you are an undergrad or postgrad student. Undergrads are entitled to the bursary as well as the usual student finance (tuition fee loan and maintenance loan/ grant). For an undergrad student social work is financially easier than other degrees.
We are training far more social workers than what we actually require and as a result many of the newly qualified social workers struggle to get work or take lesser roles than what they have trained to do. Of course many social workers leave every year too because the pay scales don't reflect the level of responsibility and stress that social workers have to cope with.

Sassh, I realise that what is being used doesnt work (that was my point). The whole industry of education has not kept up with developments in technology. Using technology to aid learning is not all about making sure that students have computers or access to the internet at home.

IME (as a governor) initiatives to buy technology for the classroom got stuck on buying computers to use in the classroom. There wasnt discussion about how the computers would be used it was just all about the purchasing of classroom hardware. There was no discussion about provision for teachers, training for teachers. It just seemed to be 'get computers into the classroom'.

Of course once the computers were purchased they very quickly ended up languishing in a cupboard.

Meanwhile the teachers continued to struggle on using ancient computing technology.

Gnomedeplume, the technology in my class room might work, or it might not. or it might take 20 mins to warm up. or it might crash without warning. or it might overheat. or it might not have saved whatever I have prepared. or it might not be able to access what I prepared in the staff room.

So no, I never plan to rely on it.

I was a science teacher for nine years and left becuase of the stress of it all. it is a bloody hard job and I praise teaching staff highly for the work that they do. I had reconsidered getting back into the classroom in a moment of madness but I guess my expereince and qualifucations are out of date.
It is a great feeling when you have a top lesson and all the kids are bubbling and enthusiastic. But on the flip side you have to deal with stressful situations, I had a child pull an air pellet rifle out of his bag... not trained for that
How do you get back if you left 10 years ago?

I thought the retired trainees idea was a spoof when I saw it!

When I was teaching all my fifty-something colleagues were on their knees - or had already left!

It is sheer desperation branchingout. The hope that enough old fools may be conned into giving it a go, that schools may actually be able to be run on wringing a few months out of each one of them, before they realised they have been taken for a mug.

I agree OP. Plain admin work is better paid around here (than teaching AS/A2 in a college...). I wouldn't return to state ed without an offer that reflected the work involved.

Luggage, I am not saying that teachers are wrong. I feel that the 'industry' of education is behind the times in terms of technology. I use a laptop for work. I have traveled and delivered many, many training courses and could count the number of times I have been let down by the technology on the fingers of one foot.

This lack of technological progress lets Govian ideas in. This idea that teaching should return to a nonexistent 1950s 'golden era' beloved of politicians. Without good and reliable technology which will do the data gathering for you it is very easy to get bogged down in box ticking exercises.

I am a cynic, I thing that bogging teachers down in bureaucracy is deliberate. It is a way of keeping the profession under control. Busy for busyness sake.

Of our school is anything to go by then yes there is a crisis. Lots of teachers leaving and no one to replace them.

GnomeDePlume

Have you checked the DSE requirements if you are using a laptop?

I agree with Minnie, and her experience I'd typical. If she has a degree in Art History, she should be perfectly capable of teaching history and other humanities but is not suitable to teach art.

I won't mention my degree subject, but it is highly related to a school curriculum subject. Despite the fact that I have taught that curriculum subject to undergraduates enrolled on that subject as their degree, when I asked if I could do a PGCE in it, I was told no, because I don't have a degree in it. So a university has judged me capable of teaching a degree but I am not allowed to train to teach that same subject at secondary school level.

And one of the very first posts on this thread was saying that there was a shortage of candidates and those applying did not have a degree in that subject (History) So what?!

I know lots of People with a PhD who want to do a PGCE but are told no because of their subject. I know archaeologists who are told they cannot train in history, and then my own children's history teachers try to teach about non-written aspects of the pasts like buildings, landscapes etc and get it totally wrong, because presumably not only do they not have any training in archaeology but they also don't even respect other disciplines enough to find out how to teach material culture from the past. The same with Art History - art is part of teaching history in the school curriculum. How can Minnie not be a suitable candidate for history jobs?

I honestly think PGCE courses and schools simply do not involve the subject content of most academic disciplines because they are divorced from the rest of the education system, yet they claim to be able to prepare pupils for university.

It is a huge waste of talent.

Monkeymamma - DH works in the private sector (not as a teacher - he programs computers) on a salary slightly higher than point 6 of the main teacher's pay scale published on the TES site. He is contracted for 37 hours. If he worked a 60 hour week, he would be paid enough overtime to earn double his salary.

So for the same hours, a typically experienced teacher with no additional responsibilities or enhancements, in a school that still pays according to TPS is earning half as much as he would, and he's not particularly highly paid for his role and level of experience (it's a location thing - we're neither in the SE nor a major city).

Oddly enough, even though he has been putting in a few hours' overtime in order to have a chance of even part way meeting some unrealistic deadlines (imposed by people who don't even understand the work he does, never mind the project he's on) there is no way they would sanction 23 hours of overtime because they have to pay him for it.

Definitely not heading for one. We're in one.

That's it, I'm getting qualified in programming!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27985795

(I hope that's the right link)

Yet, apparently, there has never been a Breyer time to be a teacher says a spokesman for the department for education and there had never been more teachers in classrooms.

How can they say this if it's clearly not true?!

That bloody spokesman needs naming and shaming!

Better, sorry!

Spokeswoman, it is actually-that narrows it down 50%. I think we should be told her name!

Thanks Sassh. Tbh I was quite disappointed. Then I was bloody angry. I'll have to post in the staff room and see if other art history people are teachers and what of!

Just silly isn't it? Yours made me mad too.

Can someone please tell me why the hours are so long? What happens in a typical day? From arriving at, say 8am?

Because when I was being sold teaching, I was told teachers (Secondary) have non-teaching time and this time is used for planning and admin.

Is this not the case, or is there just too much paperwork? Where does all the time go?

The hours are so long because the classroom is only part of the job and the teacher has to give 100%, like acting. For every hour in class another hour is needed for preparation, marking, record keeping, meetings etc - and even more if reports need to be written, parent's evenings take place, school plays are put on etc. there are not enough hours in a day!

My dd NEVER gets home before 5.30 and often later. Tonight it will be 6.30 and that is not counting Parnets Evenings when it can easily be 10 pm. She also works EVERY night after dinner and for several hours at weekends. Yep its a cushy number being a teacher