Ive Just shopped someone for benefit fraud, do I deserve to burn in hell.

[Gulitladen]

I feel quite bad.

This person is an acquaintance, She was a single parent for a few months, then she met someone who pretty much moved in, he was paying her bills for her and moved in properly earlier this year.

She has always worked full time with a salary of around 20k.

She seems to have an awful lot of money, and, as a single parent myself, I couldnt quite work it out. However, I have seen her tax credits renewal form as she didnt understand something and asked me to have a look for her, and shes claiming to be a lone parent, working 16.3 hours a week, earning 12k a year less than she actually is.

She is also claiming housing benefit as a single parent.

So, I have completed the DWP form and sent it off. I couldnt help it, it makes me see red.

But I now feel terrible.

Corey just because someone you know didn't have their benefits stopped, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Several of us have shared our stories on this thread about how benefits were stopped pending investigation, with no evidence but the reporter's say-so.

normalish - I don't think I would snitch no, unless I knew the full facts (which many people don't know, of many others' circumstances).

I've had a good friend tell me her HB has been cut a lot lately. I've known people on benefits and mostly trust me the vast majority of them have wanted to and have worked.

There's no satisfaction for a lot of people in claiming benefits.

Corey I said I had £288 income. That was £72 per week job seekers. That was the full amount I was entitled to. Couldn't get housing benefit or council tax benefit, nothing. I was in the jobcentre crying and begging that I couldn't move because my ex was blocking the sale, that I had no electrics or hot water, that I was stealing apples and cereal to eat, I stole toilet rolls from public loos to use as sanitary wear, I begged neighbours and friends to help, I tried everything. In the end I cleared garages, cleaned up dog shit, swept leaves, washed cars, and scrubbed loos to get out of it, I sold my grandmother's rings to get money, all I had from her. I was half a sstep from going on the game when things suddenly started turning round. I do not regret what I did and I'd do it again. If it's illegal it's illegal. I didn't hurt anyone, I didn't turn to crime as in mugging old ladies for pensions, or stealing personal belongings to sell, I claimed job seekers. People can judge all they like but I'd defy anyone here not to do the same.

So you're lambasting 'sponging chavs' (many of whom are claiming legally) but then you continue to defend the fact that you broke the law and committed benefit fraud? Got it.

I don't believe there are 4 generations of chaos on benefits. I live on a council estate in Gateshead and I've never come across any.

So if someone had called the authorities and reported you then they would have been correct, you were claiming benefits you were not entitled to but say you would blame them for it?

This is all I am saying. If you make a choice to fiddle your benefits then get grassed up that's your fault.

IDK maybe different areas work differently. The rules re investigating fraud are on the turn to us link which is what I have seen happen in the past year twice.

Although I do know someone a couple of years ago who did have their money stopped and they were claiming as a single parent with a working partner living with them. IDK last 2 I know of didn't have their money stopped whilst being investigated.

Not read every page - so may have missed something,..but I would have assumed she was not aware of what she was doing and asked her, when she asked for my help with the form,..if she knew that she may not be entitled to anything due to her earnings and having a live in partner.
Then I would have told her I could not be involved in helping her if she admitted she was over claiming something.
I would have also said I thought benefit fraud was wrong.

They've made changes to council tax benefit lately in my area and a friend of mine is absolutely screwed. She's in a good house in a higher tax band because of a divorce and is trying to sell the house but that takes time obviously. In the mean time the council in their infinite wisdom have decided that they will only award benefit to houses under a certain tax bracket, and nothing to those in a higher bracket, so the ones who would have the most to find and the hardest struggle are the ones they stop paying for. They send court summons at lightening speed and she has no way of magically finding the money out of thin air. She's working 1 day a week above board on a training contract for a year and not being paid. So she's started cleaning houses to get the council tax money. And I'm not shopping her and never will. Councillors have just awarded themselves a ludicrous amount of bonuses and expenses but penalise those with the highest bills who would have the worst time paying and threaten court when they obviously can't pay! That's not fair. Once her training contract is over in 6 months she will be on a good wage and able to pay everything herself but in the mean time she does not deserve to have a criminal record and jeopardise the possibility of a job and I am not going to shop her for trying to get herself out of a tough situation.

I am struggling with the concept that you and your friend are fine, yet other claimants are sponging chavs to be honest, though saying that I wouldn't judge what you have had to do when in that situation and certainly wouldn't be rushing out to grass.

When I think about my moral compass it wouldn't let me seriously fuck over a struggling family in order to save the tax payer a few quid.

normal exactly. If the choice is bend the rules for a year and become self sufficient and pay your own way, or spiral down and have to claim a house and lose everything and become a long term claimer so it's 10 times harder to get out of it then yes, I'd support the former. Anyone with half a brain who can do simple maths would agree! Let's say it took me a year to sort myself out and get back on track, I claimed £288x12 in that time. Had I not done that I'd still be there now 5 years on and would have lost the house and be in a council flat, as well as now having 2 kids to look after, plus council tax, transport, health, schools etc etc etc.... how much would I have cost the tax payer by now? Use your logic!

Harold it's simple. a family who doesn't want to work, is happy claiming and doesn't want to get out, whose kids are happy in that life and not encouraged to have a work ethic etc etc, who breaks the law just to go on holiday & buy an X-Box and fund smoking and drinking and social lives is a sponge. Someone who up until then has paid their way, who has fallen on hard times and wants to get out, who has a choice to cheat for a year and get out and back on top, or accept the law and spiral even further down and become a long term burden on the state deserves a break. The government have their rules and can't discriminate but a normal intelligent person who knows the individual circumstances should be able to.

Wrightstuff123 Tue 24-Jun-14 10:54:59

It's clear the detractors on here are benefit claimants who are happily doing their own bit of fiddling! Twisting the OPs words and motives to suit their own agenda.

The hard working people, especially on low wages, paying tax and struggling to make ends meet are the ones who think thieving benefit cheats deserve to be informed on.

Clearly benefit cheating is alive and well if the number of negative posts on this thread is anything to go on.

HA HA HA My DH is in his mid sixties. Pray tell me how you think we are faking his date of birth. Because apart from borrowing a Tardis and warping the time continuem I don't see how its possible.

Your post has libelled quite a few ppl on this thread btw.

claim a house and lose everything and become a long term claimer so it's 10 times harder to get out of it then yes, I'd support the former.

Why would you become a long term claimant because you took a council house ad your homeless.

I don't understand

Also there's a BT of a difference shopping someone who's doing a little cleaning job on the fiddle to shopping someone who's blatantly claiming as a part time single parent whilst working full time and moving their working partner in.

I've never shopped anyone and don't know if I would, possibly if rubbing my nose in it and if I done it I would fully expect someone might grass me up as it's a chance you take

Mrs Downey. Reading your posts to me is sounding like you seem to think people who live in council houses don't work or knock out loads of kids. I really don't see how taking a house whilst homeless because you haven't fiddled your benefits to keep your house means you will be a burden on the state or have kids who don't work. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that's how it's coming across to me.

Mrs Downey Junior there needs to be more understanding of people who have been financially abused like yourself. What you went through was shit.

But cant you see you are contributing to the way people in your situation are viewed by coming out with the divide and rule bollocks about "chavs" how do you know that some of those "chavs" you have seen in the bastion of truth that is the Daily Mail haven't been financially abused too. Or does it only happen to higher rate taxpayers and the middle classes.

But as i mentioned previously, and Corey I think, the people you have described simply do not exist. Not over four generations anyway.

Corey has a point as well, why would you have not returned to work? Plenty of people in council or social housing work and pay rent, therefore not costing the tax payer anything.

I just would have thought that you would have more empathy at how people could get into these situations and not bandying daily mail style clap trap about.

Corey I wasn't commenting on you specifically, I was thinking about my own situation. I did actually apply for a council house at the time but technically I had a house and as soon as I had some money to pay for an electrician and a plumber then I would have had heating and hot water too, even if I couldnt afford the running costs and other debts and living expenses, so was it better to cheat a bit and sort my house out, at no cost to the taxpayer except the benefit I was claiming at the time, which I still would have claimed had I continued to not work and go into a council house, or better to continue trying to get the council house as well as the extra benefits I would have then been entitled to, where I would still be now 5 years on? I'm trying to get people to think logically here. People are so up in arms about taxpayers money, and I get it I really do, like I said I've paid taxes for 22 years, 10 of those at a higher rate whilst never using public services and you can be damn sure pensions won't exist by the time I'm eligible, but sometimes I think they can't see the wood for the trees. Some people cheat short term as a way to get out of the benefit cycle and become self sufficient again. If they didn't they would still be claiming years later and probably become eligible for even more at the taxpayers expense. It's not all black and white. I'm not apologising for what I did and I agree with my friend doing what she's doing and she's not the only person I know to cheat the system and have it work out 1000 times better for themselves in the long term, but I'm trying to get these taxpayers to see that sometimes it is in their interests to turn a blind eye and not tar everyone with the same brush. My cousin was in a care home as a child, given a council flat as as teen, on benefits, all the markings of a long term claimant. She cheated, worked 3 jobs days, evenings & weekends, bought the flat on a right to buy deal, fast forward 5 years she was a married mother, home owner, business owner, traveled the world, a very good life she's still living now another 15 years on and is now very well off. She could have stayed where she was, never saved that money, never bought that flat, never got that life and the state would still be paying for her now. What would these taxpayers prefer? It's not all cut and dry.

Kate, you may have no reason to believe the OP isn't genuine but aren't these the Talk Guidelines?

We do have a few forum rules to make sure we keep Talk a good place to hang out:
No personal attacks
No posts that break the law
No trolling, misleading or *>>deliberately inflammatory behaviour

Oh Harold for goodness sakes the 4 generation thing was an offhand throwaway comment, stop harping on about it. We all know the families I mean, they exist everywhere and are not shy about it. I've seen people growing up where the parent's have never worked and are sitting in their council flat smoking weed, drinking cider, on the fiddle and going nowhere and very happy about it, I've known people I grew up with follow the same path and even had a "friend" at the time, though she didn't last long, have an accidental pregnancy, get given a council flat, then say she wasn't returning to work because she got more money on benefits and was going to try & get pregnant again to get more money, not because she wanted another child or was in love or anything, I've seen family stay out of work for 50 years because well why bother when the state gives them everything. We all know who I mean and that's a different category to someone who didn't have that life and fell on hard times. Come on you know that.

Why do you need to cheat to get out of the benefits system?

I'm not saying I have anything against people who earn a few quid on the side, but in most, if not all cases, they are doing it because they want a few extra quid/nicer things, not because it is the only way off benefits.

People in council housing can and do work, go to college, retrain etc. They don't kick you out if you get a job.

Cleanin I'm sure some people don't need to cheat to get out, but when you start of down £20k, with ongoing bills of £1000 per month, and need a job of at least £25k to legitimately get out of it and back on top but can't get that job despite desperately trying, and you've got red letters coming out of your ears and are about to lose the car, phone and house, it's hard to think well I could go to this training course, take that minimum wage job, declare bankruptcy and get a council house then in maybe 6-12 months I'll be able to eat again, in 10 years buy the flat on a right to buy, and in 20 years get halfway to where I was 6 months ago before my life fell apart... when you can go and get a cash in hand job today and be out of it in 6-12 months and still have your home, car, phone, food and pay your bills. Sorry but I stand by what I and many others have done.

What about being born into that? Being born into having a mother that sat about smoking weed and drinking cider all day and having to fend for yourself. Thats hard times.

But its otherwise ok to claim benefits your not entitled to to get out of a hard patch, but those others are chavs.

The example you gave about your cousin, thats a little more wooly isnt it. Did she have children, because what your saying she did is work cash in hand to save money for a house deposit? I am a little confused as to why that was strictly necessary.

She cheated, worked 3 jobs days, evenings & weekends, bought the flat on a right to buy deal, fast forward 5 years she was a married mother, home owner, business owner, traveled the world, a very good life she's still living now another 15 years on and is now very well off. She could have stayed where she was, never saved that money, never bought that flat, never got that life and the state would still be paying for her now. What would these taxpayers prefer? It's not all cut and dry.

So effectively someone homeless probably sat in a hostel with kids whilst your cousin made a better life for herself or someone like me waited 8 months for accommodation instead of cheating the system

I'm confused what did your cousin cheat? Was she claiming and getting housing benefit whilst saving up a deposit to buy her council flat at a knock down price to later sell at massive profit . because that's just shocking to me if that's what she done

Harold yes I have sympathy for those born into it, the family I was thinking of had 2 sons who were actually really really nice lads, on in particular, but both ended up going into crime and both ended up in prison and ever since have been in a council flat on benefits themselves. Is it better to risk that happening to more kids born into poverty, or cheat a bit, get out of it & raise them out of that life and seeing their parents working and owning their own house?

Re my cousin she couldn't have saved that money legitimately, it would have taken her another 5+ years with the benefits she would have lost and the income tax she would have paid. Now she's paid back more than triple what she took by being on a higher tax bracket and contributing properly, as well as not using state benefits anymore and instead using private health, schools and pension (well one day, she's paying a hell of a lot in). She has saved the taxpayer a fortune in the long term by cheating in the short term. How can that be judged?