AIBU to not understand why some people seem to have an absolute hatred for rich people in this country.

[Barbierella]

I cannot understand why people find it acceptable to slate rich people as if they are all the same and responsible for all that is wrong in society.

Surely people can understand that many rich people do pay tax and generally are an asset to society? And without the many successful businesses in the private sector we would not have a public sector?

AIBU to think that people who like to lump all rich people into one tax avoiding bunch of tossers can be the very same people who get outraged at the lumping of all out of work people as benefit scroungers?

Neither are ok in IMO.

Sorry Barbie I misunderstood you. The point in my post still stands though.

Just because one group are portrayed and generalized in a negative fashion does not make it right to generalize about another.

I just don't want to live in a society where a large minority of people are miserable and therefore dangerous

Awful documentary on child poverty in the UK, embarrassing and shameful, this was under Labour when the gap between rich and poor grew like never before.

What did Labour do, to support and help these, the most vulnerable in our society? He flooded the country with even more poor people even more people who need assistance when they couldn't cope with the ones we already had.
A violent attack on the poor of this country, if ever there was one.

A disgrace. I cannot stand Tony Blair.

Rant over.

Generalisation happens because of what people see, or are shown, of the behaviour of particular groups.

Spero I haven't googled it but I think it was Micheal Caine

it's not wealth it's behaviour that people judge

Not true, in most cases and certainly not on MN.

People have to hear a whiff of a bit of monetary luck bestowed on them and the daggers are out...teeth bared and gleaming.

Yes, YABU.
HTH.

Emotionecho
But some people see the portrayal of the poor for what it is, and complain (rightly so) about the generalization and in the next breath blame it all on the rich. And the irony escapes them.

Ok fair enough, Barbierella if that's the case. I haven't seen it, but not been on MN very long and probably don't read the threads were it happens. I certainly don't see it in RL around me, sometimes though people are their own worst enemies in terms of the image they portray with their behaviour.

I would also argue that public displays of wealth transcend all wealth groups hence the millions of revenue lost to fake designer goods.

I think it's a manifestation of the fact meritocracy does not exist.

People know in their bones that the fallacy of work hard= success + money is bollocks.

2 people could put the exact same effort into a job but be paid vastly different amounts. Saying "it's not fair" makes one sound like a jealous toddler but it's just the truth.

I was bullied at school. Not for very long and not very badly, but some of the posts on here remind me of those types that bullied you in school. I was clever, I studied as you needed to do to pass exams. Hence I now have had a well paid career and the advantages it brings. I wouldn't say I was very rich but I'm richer than some. From what I've gathered, the school bullies have not done as well as me, and are pretty much still in the same place but older. I'm also absolutely certain I've paid far more tax than them.

Its nothing to do with privilege in my case, since we all went to the same school. Its about attitude, ability and hard work, and I see the same mindset those school bullies had all those years ago is still alive and kicking in some of those who decide to deride "the rich" or, more bafflingly, try and paint the picture that rich(er) people are somehow a bit dim.

FWIW I know of far more incompetent, under-qualified over-paid local authority executives on £70,000 a year and more than I do of the boarding school/Oxbridge political class.

Theincrediblealfonso
You are right, nurses spring to mind.
However, my post is really about the hypocrisy of people really upset about the image immigrants/benefit recipients have and then moan about the rich as though they are all tax dodgers. If you pick them up on it they often reply with the kind of "who cares they're rich" type reply. They can't see the irony.

Barbierella I disagree with you on the public displays of wealth transcending all groups, fake designer goods are not expensive and usually obvious, something like Tamara Ecclestone's bath cannot be imitated and is just ostentation for the sake of it.

theincredible I do think we have a less meritocratic society and that does breed resentment. Some historians say that Vicorian society was far more meritocratic but that society was riven with appalling abject poverty and it seems the 'newly rich' were the most philanthropic.

I only dislike rich folk whose wealth has been inherited and who have no understanding of folk who aren't as privileged as they and make it difficult for them. Gideon Osborne for instance. And Ian Duncan Smith is another. What a Wanker than man is! Not sure if any of his wealth is inherited but he certainly married into it.

I only know of two wealthy couples personally. One is a school friend of dh's whose minted through his own hard work. He's a down to work bloke but his wife is an utter snob. Rude and aloof, we rarely see them now. The other couple, well he was brought up on one of the roughest estates round here and eventually became a director of his own company. His partner, a great lady was widowed young sadly but left VERY well off by her husband. He sold his share of his company and now they run a successful cafe locally. Neither of them look down on folk that aren't as minted as they are. These are the sort of rich folk I like.

• Down to earth bloke

Emotionecho
I understand your point but the fact is aspiring to show wealth through fake designer goods definitely transcends classes and wealth.
The rich may have the real thing (or not subscribe to that ideal) just as the less well off will have the fake or not want to subscribe to that ideal.

Not sure if Gary Barlow has been mentioned re tax avoidance. I don't know much about it but he seemed to get a slating for tax avoidance which is completely legal. He wasn't evading tax or committing crimes and all big companies have tax departments who work to minimise the company tax bill. I think he did nothing wrong and pays thousands and thousands in tax, much more than the rest of us and has paid way more than his fair share. I think it's a good example of bashing the rich out of pure jealousy. GB seems like a decent bloke and has talent and has worked hard and I don't begrudge him a penny of his millions.

Of course some rich people are complete selfish assholes but they would probably be like that anyway, it's not being rich that did it!

With respect to the Gary Barlow affair, the issue is what underpins the scheme that avoids tax. At one extreme, an ISA is a tax avoidance tool as it allows one to shield income and capital gains from tax. No one would object to that and the underpinning for it is the Government's desire to see people saving. At the other extreme are the aggressive schemes that Gary Barlow and others were participating in that had no rationale other than to avoid tax. In general, schemes that have an underlying commercial purpose will be allowed and those whose only purpose is tax avoidance will be disallowed but we shouldn't make the assumption that anything that mitigates an individual's tax burden is "bad".

And also, not all tax planning devices are solely for the benefit of the "rich".

I guess it depends on whether or not these devices/products work though - only a small fraction of them do - so it's only really 'the rich' who can afford to take that gamble

Having worked for 20 plus years and been a higher rate tax payer for nearly all of that time, I think I know enough about tax to comment.

I find moaning about having to pay tax really disgusting. Stop driving on the roads then, or employing people who have been educated by the state.

who's moaning about paying tax spero?

Sorry that was a comment aimed at someone a page or so back who was chuckling at my naivety about the tax system. I bloody wish.

I don't think anyone on here has particularly moaned about tax but you were asking why the rich are 'hated' - one of the reasons the affluent irritate me (hate probably too strong a word) is the constant whinging about paying tax as it all goes on benefit scrounges and layabouts.

As someone whose life was saved by the NHS I think that is a very sad attitude and points to a nasty mentality.

Sirchenjin
"I guess it depends on whether or not these devices/products work though - only a small fraction of them do - so it's only really 'the rich' who can afford to take that gamble"

Not really sure what the point is here. You are correct that anyone going for an exotic or aggressive scheme has to take a view on whether HMRC will challenge the scheme but there are many products that are perfectly well tested or accepted and that work for many people. The point I was making was that "tax avoidance" or tax planning isn't just a rich person's game. Many people, even without thinking about it, do it and so the outrage seems to be one of degree, not principle.