To believe we've forgotten how to eat healthily

[Yoruba]

I'm so completely fed up of the school serving up so much rubbish, with seemingly no understanding that its unhealthy. It is really really hard to find good evidenced advice about healthy eating for children. There seem to be contradictory reports coming out all the time, and I say that as someone who is really interested in this subject so it must be harder if you don't.

The school meals are utter rubbish. They have a sugary rubbishy pudding every day, sweets at every possible occasion and now they have seen fit to start selling ice creams after school to raise money.
Im not even THAT strict I don't think, I'm happy for her to have these foods but evidence shows that eating them regularly alters your taste buds and makes you crave them more. I think they should be occasional foods we eat as PART of a healthy diet, not every day.

But at the moment I'm feeling like a lone voice and I hate dd feeling like she's missing out in not having what her friends are. I don't want these things to be "forbidden" objects of desire.

It just seems as though there is very little knowledge now of what is actually healthy for children.

Now u do watch carbs and bread. Just because I know they really affect my weight and appetite. I do serve them though. Sensible portions. I don't let my child loose with the bread packet, as we were allowed as a child. Cereal is also served in a small bowl.

I don't go on though, I don't think they are unhealthy foods. They serve a purpose, energy and their are some nutrients in grains such as Magnesium. I take supplements, my DC don't. The limits of what I can eat, to lose weight, is different to what my child should have as an active growing child and I acknowledge this.

My DC don't really expect / ask for more, apart from when we have something for dinner which we always serve 'seconds' because we serve a smallish portion first time round. The rest is saved for lunch the next day.

delphiniumsblue Strawberries were just an example. It could be any fruit to be honest. And yes, fruit does contain natural sugars but their have micronutrients, vitamins etc they're not packed with fat!

How did you lose 3 stone ppeatfruit?

Oh and I have always served plentiful fruit, especially as for a while my DC was not keen on veg, only really liked to eat veg in things, not as a side dish.

Seems to work. Liking more veg dishes now too.

I realise that Joni - just taking issue that children can learn to like something. My eldest shuddered as a baby when given cheese. He is 33 yrs and still doesn't like it despite trying it at intervals. There are some genuine dislikes that you can't 'learn' to like - even if you 'learn' to eat them.
Everything in moderation. You can eat chocolate and strawberries.
I love both!

The fact that I love chocolate doesn't mean I eat lots of it!

I have no problem with my DCs having puddings for school dinners. They run around in circles for at least an hour during the school day, walk to school and back, play outside for hours in good weather, attend sports clubs, and generally ate like string beans.

I do however mind that the school/Lea seem to constantly treat spaghetti hoops as one of '5 a day'. Maybe they do count as a ' 5 a day' (no idea tbh) but do they really have to have them almost everyday and how can they possibly be comparable to 'proper' veg. Jamie Oliver had definitely not had any effect on our school, and font even get me on the fact that the Juniors got the shitty end of the stick cos all the decent food has been served to the Infants first.

I had cake with every meal in the 1970s.

I'm slim and healthy.

School dinners have always served pudding every day.

I believe that a sweet dessert is fine. It stops you over-eating on the main course -saving room for dessert maybe? and leaves you satisfied, stemming cravings between meals.

The problem is we eat far too many carbs these days. Many meals are mainly pasta or rice based. We eat carbs with carbs too:pizza and chips? rice and naan? lasagne and garlic bread? Many parents I know think that plain pasta with cheese on top is suitable for their child's dinner. It isn't. In the 70s most meals were meat and two veg type with a balance of carbs and protein.

We didn't snack either, and trips to the sweet shop were once a week for a 10p mix. We watched tv without popcorn or crisps. We went to the cinema with just a packet of opal fruits to share between us. Kids didn't dish out sweets at school for their birthday, and cereal bars weren't invented so we ate apples at break.

I do however mind that the school/Lea seem to constantly treat spaghetti hoops as one of '5 a day'. Maybe they do count as a ' 5 a day' (no idea tbh) but do they really have to have them almost everyday and how can they possibly be comparable to 'proper' veg

There was a documentary on this. The amount of shit containing just enough of something to be able to say it counts as 1/2 of your "5-a day" is unbelievable. People see the symbol and assume it's relatively healthy yet in reality it's a high salt ,high sugar, fat laden ready meal.

They made a batch of cookies containing a load of butter and sugar and chocolate (all fine in moderation) but got away with being able to say it contained 1 of the five a day because of some banana.

There is an issue of a lack of proper knowledge about food that needs to be addressed.

Ask children in Italy about produce season and they will know. Uk children - not a chance - not even waltons children I'd bet :)

But that's not about children counting calories or banning fruit though! It's not anti chocolate and cake.

My children are 9,7,5,3 and 2 and each of them has a couple of foods they dont like, the 9 year old for example cant stand mushrooms. I find this is fine I mean everyone has things they just dont like BUT then they have friends over who have a diet totally made up of frozen pizzas and chips and their parents call them "fussy". They are not fussy they are spoiled! I mean really if ANY could eat a diet of pizza and chocolate bars they would.

Our general rule is it is put on the table and and the end of the meal it is taken away, if you fail to eat it your hungry until the next meal. We also dont buy any processed foods such as shop made bread or cakes/biscuits or sauces etc.

I speak as a child who grew up with no food rules - I was seriously overweight at 11 (I was nearly 12 stone and I was very short as well so I was very big). My mother died of a heart attack when she was 40 also extremely overweight.

I don't deny my kids things, we have pudding every night it is just not a crappy processed one, we have days out where we get icecream etc etc but equally they know what good food is and I HOPE I have saved them from the major problems (both social and healthwise) that I had.

Home-made bread, cake & biscuits, porridge, cheese and yogurt are processed foods, too.

yes they are just not full of god knows what as many shop versions are 0 also we eat roughly paleo (I dont believe the whole eat like a caveman thing but I use it as a nice template for our diet in any case) so we dont use flour or sugar etc in any foods at all.

Good point pomme

I was informed at a farm last week - by a fellow parent - that it was cruel that a 4 year old knew than sausages came from pigs. Now to me I can't see any reason not to allow a child to understand - in an age appropriate way - where good comes from.

I assume that when I am talking about 'processed foods' people know what I mean. I am making bread at the moment- it is good quality flour (a mix) yeast and water and a little salt. It is not what I mean by ' avoid processed foods'.

Of course children should know from the start where food comes from. I was talking to 2 five year old last week who are farmer's children and they were telling me all about seeing to 'their cows and hens' before they got to school. Much healthier to know the facts young.

There are two things on MN that I see trotted out as facts, regarding food, which really bug me.
The first is that if you restrict children from eating too many sweets/crisps/cake, they will gorge on it at the first opportunity.
The second is that "there are no bad foods", and that telling children certain foods (or non-foods really, like spagetthi hoops or wagon wheels) are bad for you will cause children to develop issues about food.
I think both of these things are bollocks.
I grew up with a pretty low sugar diet, and had hardly any convenience foods as a kid. I thought Findus crispy pancakes were exotic, but didn't particularly like the taste, as they were so salty to me.
I liked chocolate biscuits, but couldn't finish a whole Penguin, as it was just too sweet.
Ds has been raised with a fairly home cooked, restricted sugar diet,(just because I do cook, and don't buy convenience foods, other than tinned beans) and, sure, he likes sweets (and is allowed a few on Fridays and Saturdays and if we go to the cinema or on a train I get a tube of something to share) but he can't manage a lot of chocolate etc. It takes practice to get your tastebuds to the point where you can eat a lot of sweet stuff. Unfortunately, I have a much sweeter tooth now than I used to, but my sugar addiction was developed in my 30's as a knackered single mum, not as a child.
And if we don't tell kids that some foods are bad for them, how will they know??
Yes, occasionally we will get a McDonalds, or have an ice cream, like most people, but it's fine to say to children that we can eat these things once in a while, but they are not very good for us.
Likewise, it's good to tell children what is healthy. Find vegetables they like, learn to cook healthy tasty things, and eat with them, enjoying healthy food, and explain what good nutrition does for us, and how it makes us strong and fit.
I can't stand all this dancing around telling children the truth, and yes, of course kids should know where their meat comes from.
But then I remember our local greengrocer having rabbits hanging upside down in the shop, and my mum choosing one, and the greengrocer taking it in the back for skinning, so perhaps I am hardened

I'm shocked that so many on here still seem to have crap school meals and JO has had no impact. Our local primary school is very lucky - everything cooked on site, the kitchen manager (a parent) we have now fought to take over from the LEAs approved contractor (frozen crap) and now they serve locally sourced meat, eggs and veg, make their own 100% meat burgers, every pudding contains 25% fruit (so even cookies and flapjack or cornflake cake have fruit in) and oily fish once a week. Its a shame not all schools have the facilities to cook from scratch on site.

DDs secondary school has a mini Costas in the dining area !

unrealhouse I discovered the Paul Mckenna Way of Eating which is mindful; basically eating ONLY when you're hungry, STOPPING when you're full, (no clearing the plate), it re educates your body so it's more HOW we eat rather than what, but I eat healthily with it.

So no counting calories or weighing food or 'diet' foods at all!

Yes! Ifnow!

There are good foods and bad foods. Why pretend otherwise? Plus I often exclaim "that's not food!" Because afaik, some stuff just isn't food. Those garishly coloured powdered sugar things that come in a tube designed to be upended into the mouth - not food. When my kids get them in party bags I don't snatch it away and clutch it to my breast and mutter "thist shalst not pass my pfb's precious lips", but it's bloody well not food and I'll say so. Neither are Krispy Creme donughts.

So ner.

Because maybe we might be right !

rightwrong......................>walton - wronger than wrong.

I think there are plenty of personal anecdotes from people who were rigidly controlled as a child with food issues now. I also know plenty of children who gorge when mother isn't looking- they make sure she doesn't know.
I don't think they have to be bad they just need to know, from example, that you don't need much of it but there are some foods you can eat lots of.
It is what you do as a family that counts. I have never had a Krispy Creme doughnut, don't even know what they are, so they wouldn't get one at home therefore I don't need to fret if they get the odd one when out with a friend. I don't need to pass an opinion on it.