Mr Mrs Miss Ms ---Asking for your support

[PleaseCallMeMs]

"Ms" is a title that means "Miss or Mrs". It is the equivalent of "Mr", a title that can be used by any girl or lady that does not reveal anything about marital status. As some people put it, its short for "Mind your own businesS".

I have been trying for some time to get my bank to change my title from "Miss" to "Ms". When managing my account online, I cannot change my title directly. It defaults to "Miss" when I input my marital status as "with partner and children". I have emailed customer services a few times but got no reply. When I telephoned, the customer rep had to bring in "a specialist" to help out. They decided that I needed to take proof of my status to a branch to get my title changed!!!? When I asked what would be suitable proof that I'm a "Ms", they didn't know.

You may not think its a big deal, I'm not married and I should be happy with "Miss", but I really do find it offensive. I don't want to get married, but I'm in a committed relationship and I'm an older lady. I think its well within my rights to use the title of my preference and that our society should respect that. That's all I'm asking for. I agree it is only a little thing, but there is a deep issue here about the way we define women by their marital status. For example, a child will automatically know whether their female teachers are married or not, but won't have the same personal information to judge their male teachers. I believe that to create a truly equal society, it is important that we change the little things as well as the big things. Wouldn't it be better if, by default, when no information is known, a lady would be referred to as "Ms", instead of a guess being made about whether she is married or not? Those who wish to can, of course, use "Miss" or "Mrs". I'm not arguing that everyone should be forced to use "Ms". But those who want their marital status kept as their own business, should be able to do so.

There's been a few threads about "Ms" on Mumsnet in recent years. On one of them it was mentioned that someone should campaign about this. I thought I'd give it a go. So I've set up a twitter account in order to post about my experiences with the bank. I'd be glad if you would follow me, PleaseCallMeMs. I need a little momentum before I start to tweet to the bank's customer department. I'm hoping that if I get enough retweets, the bank will take notice! I'm new to twitter, so any advice will be gratefully received!!!

I namechanged from a Mrs nickname partly because I felt it undermined my case for Ms as the default for adult women on many threads like this.

I teally don't understand this. I'm 54, I've had a NatWest bank account since 1982 in the name of Ms Olgaga.

I don't remember ever having a problem online or offline with calling myself Ms, even though I'm married and use both single and married names.

Only when I use my married name do I use Mrs.

My personal campaign would be to remove the need for a title at all; I don't see what purpose it serves!

Back in the day Ms was devised to be an alternative to Mrs when someone divorced.

No it wasn't.

www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/magazine/25FOB-onlanguage-t.html?_r=0

And the titles Miss and Mrs had nothing to do with marriage until relatively recently

www.geog.cam.ac.uk/research/projects/occupations/abstracts/paper25.pdf

If you think that is offensive, try post-divorce being default MRS (that grits in your teeth). It makes you feel sooooooooo MIDDLEAGED and past it. Seriously, apparently I can't be in my 30s and single, apparently. I would be delighted by a youthful miss.

Your marital status is single, with illegitimate children; this may offend you but it is correct.
The term 'illegitimate' offends the fuck out of me. I'm perfectly real and prefer the term bastard, thankyouverymuch. (As my daughter likes to say, some of the best people are.)

People who know me through my daughter sometimes say Mrs Herlastname. This doesn't bother me at all. I invite them to call me by my first name, but don't correct them. Because I don't care.

Of course, being in the US, what with accent and all, Mrs, Miss or Ms all sound more or less the same. Which is convenient. The slightly more polite form of address for any adult female would be ma'am. Default for written correspondence, when included, seems usually to be Ms though.

Barclay's default for divorced woman is Ms, I never asked for my title to be changed but it was
Some time after they discovered I was divorced

DH expected to be asked to provide proof when he became Dr rather than Mr and went to the bank to change it - think he was a bit disappointed when they just said it was his choice of title and he didn't get to show off a certificate

They had a drop down menu in their computer system and you could choose whatever you liked - and I'll be honest, I did consider Duchess.

Another argument for getting rid of titles - in the globalised world, you don't necessarily even know if the name is male or female. I often get emails addressed to Mr Nutt.

Someone once explained that they were told to address people as Mr, if they weren't sure of the gender, as otherwise men would get upset being addressed as Mrs or Ms, but women apparently don't mind being "promoted". Well, I do mind! Especially as people usually want something from me and if they are not sure if I'm a Ms or Mr, they could simply quickly google me and would find my photo on our company website. (no, I really don't look like a man). But no, it's easier to assume everybody is a man..

Mrsbug, Mx is supposed to be a gender (and marital status) neutral title.

Is this better, WhoKnows?

That's interesting Hazle, I can't decide if that's a good idea or just negates the point of a title at all

When I got married I had an argument with a young (and fairly rude and not very well informed) man about the fact both me and my husband were changing our names (to his name-my name) and that I wanted to remain ms and not become mrs. I've used ms since I can remember as I don't see why I should have to reveal my marital status when men don't need to. He found this unfathomable and tried to tell me it 'wasn't allowed' and when I got my new card it had mrs on it despite my clear request. I ordered another one and made a complaint and they changed it and credited my account with 20 quid to apologise.

Of course, being in the US, what with accent and all, Mrs, Miss or Ms all sound more or less the same

This is really only true for some parts of the US; it is definitely true for much of the South. Mrs has been pronounced Miz for generations.

Yeah, I should probably have specified that I meant where I live specifically. I'm in the Northwest (Oregon, but I lived in Washington for years as well) and there seems to a subtle 'Southern' influence on the accent here.

I always select Ms but my university and the NHS have me as Miss. I hate being addressed as Miss because it feels like a title for a little girl. I don't like Mrs either because that feels like being defined by a relationship to a man. When I get married I'll be Dr Myname (assuming I pass my viva) professionally because Myname is rarer so easier to publication search. I'll be Ms/Dr Hisname for everything else because I prefer Hisname and I'm fed up of always having to spell Myname out for people.

I meant to also say that if a form has no option for Ms I always select Mr, although I will give my business to another company in that case if it's feasible.

In the South of the US, it's often Miz Firstname.

I really would prefer not to have to use any title, if I have to, I usually use miss - I'm divorced by the way.

Very interesting article sashh

I would prefer not to have to define my identity in terms of a man on principle, and while 'master' is used to mean a male child who will graduate automatically to a Mr, the Miss part is a continuation of Victorian society beliefs that a female held a minor/inferior status until she became legally attached to a man. With the spinsters being something of a family embarrassment. Yes it's so archaic that it's lost almost all meaning but that doesn't make it ok.

I use Ms. I'm now at the age where I'm automatically referred to as 'Mrs', and I get why, I look too old for people to feel comfortable to say 'Miss', and there still is the faint Jane Austen flavour that you've somehow failed if you're still a Miss. As a hairdresser said to me when I corrected her on my marital status, "Never mind love, we'll get you a man yet."

Uhm......

I loathe Ms. I have recently changed unions and they assumed the title of Ms for me. They got a stiff email telling them to change it to Mrs and to either omit it in future or ask what someone would like to be titled.

I would be so pleased if organisations would just assume I was a Ms.

For people who say they don't want titles at all, what would children call teachers? (I'd have said
'What would strangers call you" but everyone seems to use first names these days)

I've used Ms since 18 and I opened my first proper bank account.

I am married.

I'd also quite happily do without the whole Miss/Mrs/Ms thing altogether, although have a sneaking hankering for going a bit 17th century and being Mistress Cowgirl...

Yes my new employer have sent me a letter addressed to Miss.They Have not asked my marital status just assumed based on my age. In fact they have a copy of my drivers licence which clearly states I am a Ms. Which I thought was a little odd tbh.

If you don't know surely it's either Ms or first name last name ?

My female boss also once said the correct way to address correspondence to persons unknown is always dear sirs not dear sir or madam. That's not true is it ?!