To be fuming that DS got a level 3b in his Y5 SATS reading...

[pippiLS]

…and that his form teacher thinks that this is somehow my fault!!

Some background info: DS had all L3s at KS1, is hoping to get into one of the best Grammar schools in the country (maybe we need to rethink this) and is reading (with me), A Brief History of Time at the moment (just to give you an idea of his reading level). He loves science and is very well informed about material far beyond the curriculum at this level yet he has also performed poorly on his Science SATs paper. Oh, and one last thing, he got 100% in one of his maths papers.

Have arranged meeting with Head and form teachers but not sure what on earth to say. He joined this school in Y5, so just this year (it's a middle school). His final report from his previous school in Y4 was all 4as.

Thanks all.

I'm not too worried as I gave him a year 6 SATS English paper at home and he only lost a few marks (so high level 5 I guess). Today I'm going to give him a chance at the L6 reading paper and having had a look at it I think he might manage OK.

I'm not normally one to blame the teachers but I saw the same thing happen with my DD. I think that helping DC to do their best is hampered by getting them to jump through hoops.

"I'm not normally one to blame the teachers but I saw the same thing happen with my DD. I think that helping DC to do their best is hampered by getting them to jump through hoops."

But you say you're going to give him level 6 papers to do- isn't that you making him jump through hoops?

Hakluyt, yes but you can't fluke a good mark in the same way that you can fluke a bad one. Deciding that DS has made no progress because he didn't get the required SAT mark on the required day is just plain wrong and at best demotivating.

If he is working at level 6, the really important thing to find out is why he doesn't perform at tests. Because he will need to if he's going to do the 11+and go to grammar school.

Do you have any idea what's going wrong when he gets into a formal test environment?

The reading level is for reading comprehension and there are various assessment objectives such as explaining how the writer shapes the reader's expectation, how the writer creates empathy with a character, etc.

Your son is clearly an avid reader. Reading widely and frequently is one of the best ways to prepare for comprehension tests as it increases vocabulary and general knowledge of the world. However on the day of the test there is always the possibility that the child, however bright and well read, misunderstands the text, misinterprets one or more of the questions or goes "off topic" when answering one or more questions and therefore doesn't meet the objective.

I don't understand why the teacher thinks it's your fault, though, unless she gave advice that you didn't follow, eg. providing practice papers that you didn't use?.

It is a couple of days before the holidays and you're going to make your ds do a level 6 reading paper?

Give that poor child a break.

With regards to the sea turtle poster, I think that, instead of writing "..a note to the teacher saying that I didn't feel there was much to be gained by redoing the piece of work and how I felt he had worked hard on it...", it might have been better if you had said that you and your ds would appreciate some more guidance on which parts of the poster needed to be redone, and why.

Your son was told some work needed redoing, you and he weren't sure what was wrong with it, so, instead of asking what the issues were, so,they could be fixed, you dismissed the teacher's opinion and refused to get your ds to do the corrections she felt were necessary.

I do think she should have been clearer with him about what she felt needed changing or re-doing, but I can understand why your note would have rubbed her up the wrong way.

With regard to the SATS, I would assume that your ds had a bad day that day, or had an issue with that specific paper. If he has a tendency to go into too much detail in his answers, then you can work with him on exam technique - I have had to talk to all three of my dses about this - things like reading the question properly, making sure you know what the question is asking, answering the question that is being asked, not the one you want to answer, showing your workings-out - things like that are all very valuable when you get to GCSEs and A levels.

If he took a Reading SAT paper, there is a big jump between achieving a 4A in y4 and a 4A in y5... children have to be able to defend and justify their viewpoint quoting the text. They have to be able to understand the play on words/humour/unwritten clues about characters, places and things. The paper will have had a mixture of 1 word/phrase answers worth 1 point, some worth 2 points (often requiring children to find and re quote parts of the text) and then 3 point answers that ask the children "why did the character do/think that?" "which would you prefer to do; go to the moon or go to the australia?" (not a real q but you get the idea).
if she is getting cross about the reading record, I bet she is getting hassle from SMT or Ofsted has mentioned it...
hope this helps.

"If he took a Reading SAT paper, there is a big jump between achieving a 4A in y4 and a 4A in y5."

I am as sure as I can be that this isn't true- a 4a is a 4a whatever year you get it in................

the number of marks needed to achieve each level is different for each year group.
in year 4 a child has to be awarded 28+ marks to achieve a L4 (not broken down into C,B,A, this would be teacher assessed)
in year 5 a child has to be awarded 30-33 marks in order to achieve a 4A.
so no, a 4a is not a 4a whatever year group you get it in.

Give that poor child a break

I agree with this. If you DC is having problems doing exams for whatever reason this extra continual pressure really IMO isn't going to help.

Is that new, plane?

satspapers.org/optionalsats.htm

many schools just photocopy the same test over and over again rather than buying a new test in... this info is what my answer was based upon (and personal experience).

Plane is correct

Level 6 reading is very hard and a massive step up. Even for the level 5a kids in year 6.

I'm afraid I have to agree with the others who have said give him a break. Why do you want him to do it? He's already working way above average, isn't that enough?

How about encouraging a love of learning for earnings sake? He doesn't need to achieve, achieve, achieve.

If he's going to do extra work, do practice entrance exams. Even then I'd lay off him a bit so it doesn't become a massive negative.

I'm sorry to say I think you need to question why you want him to do level 6 papers when he isn't even in year 6.

I gave him a year 6 SATS English paper at home and he only lost a few marks (so high level 5 I guess). Today I'm going to give him a chance at the L6 reading paper and having had a look at it I think he might manage OK

This along with your insistence on blaming the teachers, makes you sound horribly pushy and not actually interested in finding out the root of the problem. If you keep this up you will turn your DS away from learning.

Some children don't do well in exams, they don't like the pressure and at his age how does he know he wants to go to grammar school.
I doubt mine would have a clue if they wanted to or not at that age.
Isn't it usually the parents wish for this?
Could it be that he wants to go to the local comp with his mates, so he isn't trying so he doesn't pass his 11+, he won't be the first to do this.

Why on earth would you give a year 5 child the level 6 test when you know there are possible issues with his reading comprehension?

Buy a book about exam technique if you must.

But for goodness sake have a holiday.

And I say that as the mother of a child who also expresses an interest in going to Cambridge, is an absolute whizz at reading comprehension and yet still didn't pass the level 6 reading test in Year 6. It's really hard and you are setting your son up to fail. OR you are not going to be applying the marking scheme accurately. Either way, there's no point.

I hear what you are saying about giving him a break but honestly, he is happy to do it. The GS entrance exam is in two months so he is prepared to do a little bit each night, an hour or so.

I bought some books on comprehension and have managed to pass on some good advice from this thread to him and he now has a better understanding of how to go about answering the different types of questions.

He tried a level 6 Maths paper a few nights ago and only got about half way through it. However, he didn't feel that he had failed; he enjoyed the challenge and was delighted to have got a good proportion of what he did right.

Thanks again for all of the feedback, it's very useful to us.

Preciousbane, he's been reading Dr Who, Young James Bond and we're reading the Harry Potter series together.

Dear me, am I the only one who thinks the OP sounds slightly unhinged and obsessional here?

WAY too much significance is being placed on this. I dread to think how much pressure her DS feels under to achieve X grade and ultimately get into this amazing grammar school.

The 11+ is one of the biggest hoops you can get a kid to try and jump through...

I say this as a parent of one DD who is in Y10 at a superselective, and anther who is about to start in Y7 in September.

Plenty of kids don't really suit the SS model, not because they aren't bright enough, but because they aren't fast enough (and possibly have lower levels of application). SATs are not a 100% reliable predictor of 11+ success because some kids who do well with the SATs model don't do well with the 11+ model - but IME the reverse isn't usually true (there are always exceptions though).

I think from what you have posted about his reading, you need to expand his range.

An hour a day isn't a little bit by the way!

Did you not get any answers from the teacher? Or from going through his text scores?

Incidentally - an hour EACH NIGHT for the 11+ is massive overkill.