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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that a decent home is a basic human right, not a privilege

111 replies

0pheliaBalls · 11/06/2014 18:20

I rented absolute hovels in London for years, paying vastly over the odds for flats which variously had slugs in the shower/condmned gas appliances the landlord refused to fix in the depths of winter/2ft wide holes in the ceiling through which I could see the upstairs flat caused by water damage which again the landlord refused to fix and so on. The last straw came when I went into DD's room when she was a few days old and found a rat in her carrycot with her.

I now live in another part of the country in social housing and have lived here for 10 years. DH works (for a housing charity, actually) but there was a scary bit a few years ago when he was made redundant - thankfully we qualified for housing benefit so we didn't lose our lovely home.

We feel so fortunate to have a safe, secure, pleasant home for which we pay a very reasonable rent. We're all too aware that not everyone is as fortunate, both from my previous experience (I've also been briefly homeless, slept rough and in a hostel) and DH's work. But shouldn't everyone have the right to a decent roof over their heads, at an affordable cost?

Wanted to put this to you because when I mentioned it elsewhere I was flamed and told that people have too great a sense of entitlement these days. Sorry, but I believe everyone IS entitled to a secure, decent home.

OP posts:
whois · 12/06/2014 09:20

My home is very basic - we don't even have a shower or garden!

Basic isn't not having a garden or a shower FFS.

VitoCorleone · 12/06/2014 09:21

I don't think no shower or garden = basic

ChelsyHandy · 12/06/2014 09:40

The trouble with licensing and regular inspection means that it impinges on another human right - the right to freedom and privacy in one's own home. There are also some people who will also choose to live in such a way that good quality accommodation will deteriorate quickly. What would you do then? Daily inspections, and a personal cleaning/repairs squad?

I think we are very spoilt in this country. Housing benefit affords housing to those who cannot pay for it themselves. Many people rent rooms in shared accommodation, I did throughout my twenties. But then you have others claiming that someone should provide them with houses with gardens and showers, rather than baths. Its always someone else's fault. And then you have people in other parts of the world for whom that would be luxury beyond their wildest dreams.

jellybeans · 12/06/2014 09:40

YANBU totally agree. So grim that some have several homes and BTL snap up all the FTB houses to rent out. Everyone should have a decent home, it is an essential and shouldn't be for the few to milk those less fortunate.

Original poster
0pheliaBalls · 12/06/2014 09:41

OK, fair enough. But I was trying to make the point that it's not some palace paid for by the taxpayer or anything like that. I daresay that some of the posters here would consider it basic by their standards Smile

OP posts:
Original poster
0pheliaBalls · 12/06/2014 09:45

(and I'm perfectly happy without both, I'm not 'complaining'! Was just clumsily attempting to make a point Smile )

OP posts:
Talisawasnotsupposedtobethere · 12/06/2014 09:59

I do think that everyone is entitled to a decent home, but then it is their responsibility to keep it that way.

I live on a new build estate and some of the houses are social housing. Some of them are very well kept, but you can tell a lot of them just by looking at them - there is tons of rubbish outside, the gardens are completely unkempt, the windows are filthy and you can see the crap piled high in the windows. At one point the housing people had to come round and sort out their garden for them, as they were bringing all their patio furniture out onto the communal car parking area and having get together a because the gardens were just uninhabitable, and people complained. And I did think that they could have taken a little bit of pride in their home and looked after the garden themselves.

bigdog888 · 12/06/2014 10:46

YABU of course it shouldn't be a human right.

specialsubject · 12/06/2014 10:54

here comes the usual 'all landlords are bastards' thread. Rachmann has been dead sixty years. There are rules, standards, laws and you have eyes.

yes, everyone is entitled to a decent home. Don't rent slums - you are in the UK and you have that choice. Although it did (shock horror) mean that you had to leave London.

rinabean · 12/06/2014 10:55

Of course it should. Homelessness is violence. A person without shelter can find things to build a shelter from and it is torn down. Homelessness is not an accident or a misfortune. Homelessness is not about poverty so it can't possibly be about 'hard work' or 'taxpayers'. Homelessness is deliberate violent action by the state on behalf of property owners, because owning property would be meaningless if everyone did. On the smaller scale, having a roof over your head is meaningless if everyone does. There are lots of people out there who depend on homelessness for their income and for their self-worth - you can see a few on this thread.

I don't think people should be building slums and living in them! It's not sanitary. Which is why housing - proper housing - should be a right. We're not lacking for houses in this country anyway!

HeeHiles · 12/06/2014 10:57

I personally would be delighted to pay a few pence more tax if it meant that not one child ever had to wake up with a rat in its cot again, or that nobody had to sleep in a shop doorway in the depths of winter. It's called compassion isn't it? And common sense. People who are adequately housed will, in the vast majority of cases, lead healthier more productive lives. Which surely benefits the whole of society, as well as the individual.
And what about children? Would you deny a baby the right to adequate housing because the parents don't work? Also let's not forget people find themselves unable to pay their way for a variety of reasons. Ill health, job loss... It could happen to anyone. It could happen to you

Beautifully put - made me well up Smile

HeeHiles · 12/06/2014 10:57

That didn't work then Sad

HeeHiles · 12/06/2014 11:00

I live on a new build estate and some of the houses are social housing. Some of them are very well kept, but you can tell a lot of them just by looking at them - there is tons of rubbish outside, the gardens are completely unkempt, the windows are filthy and you can see the crap piled high in the windows

Have you not stopped to think that the reason those families are housed by the council/HA is because they are vulnerable? They have problems ranging from mental health, drink and drug, abuse. Cut them some slack.

dreamingofsun · 12/06/2014 11:02

obviously people should be housed in reasonable accommodation. they should also work to support themselves if they physically/mentally are able. should they be able to choose to live in lavish accommodation in one of the most expensive places on the world, and be subsidised to do so - no.

dreamingofsun · 12/06/2014 11:04

heehilles - think you may be generalising there....

its a shame something more can't be done to address some of the health problems so people can stand on their own two feet

HeeHiles · 12/06/2014 11:05

Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (and before you say anything, Mr Hopkins, this has nothing to do with Europe...)
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection

Article 17
(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property

So yes? A human right to have adequate homes.

jeee · 12/06/2014 11:05

I wouldn't class 'a decent home' as a basic human right. From what I remember of International Human Rights Law there are probably only four 'basic' rights

  • freedom from torture
  • prohibition on retrospective legislation
  • prohibition on slavery
  • right not to be arbitrarily deprived of life

That doesn't mean that I don't think that we should ensure, to the best of our abilities that everyone has accommodation that is adequate (though, of course, adequate is very subjective). And clearly that means that I accept that tax will be levied in some form to pay for this.

firstchoice · 12/06/2014 11:06

"Some form of basic shelter should be a basic human right, because it is a basic human need. I think as a society we have a duty to make sure all of our members have a roof over their heads and something to eat.

That is not necessarily the same as "giving" them a house, as I also don't really think a single person living alone needs a whole house to themselves, so it could in some cases be shared accommodation, but it should be secure from the weather, and free from health hazards."

This, above.
Well said, OakMaiden! Thanks

glasgowstevenagain · 12/06/2014 11:08

This is AIBU not Chat

AIBU to think Hitler was Evil.

AIBU to want a takeaway for dinner!

etc

APlaceInTheWinter · 12/06/2014 11:18

so landlords wouldn't be able to exploit the poorest
^^ I've lived in private lets across the country and never been exploited by my private LLs. They provided great homes and carried out repairs quickly. I didn't want to live in social housing as I thought there were lots of people who were more in need. Renting from a private landlord suited me because of where I wanted to live. It's a choice!

As for a decent home being a human right, well, decent means different things to different people so I think that's too vague. shelter is a human right. Social housing being of a tolerable living standard is a basic right.

specialsubject · 12/06/2014 13:32

ophelia - balls by name, and talking it too.

I can't see any of your bile being directed at those who issue mortgages, which is also a legitimate business involving providing property.

MrsTerryPratchett · 12/06/2014 13:39

Average life expectancy for the street homeless person in the UK - 47. Just saying.

TheABC · 12/06/2014 13:48

Housing is not a right; it's a need. It's security, rest and a place to build memories. I have yet to meet a homeless person that would happily pick the street over a secure flat.

If we had more council/social housing, maybe it would start to be seen as a mainstream option again, instead of a political football. I am not holding my breathe though, as the only manifesto I have read that proposes this is the greens. Miliband seems to think you can legislate it away whilst Cameron is just sluicing money through the banks.

fragolino · 12/06/2014 14:14

I am still not seeing the corraliation between bad tennants and landlords who rent out properties black with mould, dont do proper repairs, cram people in and have no proper fire regs etc...

or are people saying because there are bad tennants out there, by the same token its ok to have landlords who rent out flea pits?

if anyone saw that panorma program I saw...you would not be talking like that.

it was horrific.

a landlord also has the lodger/tennant by the short and curlies as they are afraid to complain in case they get thrown out....

the landlord may loose an asset but the tennant looses a roof over their heads.

no landlord should rent out a property with mould. or other issues.

dreamingofsun · 12/06/2014 14:42

fragolino - you can't just throw a tenant out. if they refuse to pay rent and trash the place, you still have to take them through the court process which takes weeks and weeks. you have to give them notice. its a long process