To think that a decent home is a basic human right, not a privilege

[0pheliaBalls]

I rented absolute hovels in London for years, paying vastly over the odds for flats which variously had slugs in the shower/condmned gas appliances the landlord refused to fix in the depths of winter/2ft wide holes in the ceiling through which I could see the upstairs flat caused by water damage which again the landlord refused to fix and so on. The last straw came when I went into DD's room when she was a few days old and found a rat in her carrycot with her.

I now live in another part of the country in social housing and have lived here for 10 years. DH works (for a housing charity, actually) but there was a scary bit a few years ago when he was made redundant - thankfully we qualified for housing benefit so we didn't lose our lovely home.

We feel so fortunate to have a safe, secure, pleasant home for which we pay a very reasonable rent. We're all too aware that not everyone is as fortunate, both from my previous experience (I've also been briefly homeless, slept rough and in a hostel) and DH's work. But shouldn't everyone have the right to a decent roof over their heads, at an affordable cost?

Wanted to put this to you because when I mentioned it elsewhere I was flamed and told that people have too great a sense of entitlement these days. Sorry, but I believe everyone IS entitled to a secure, decent home.

I agree with you, Ophelia. To all the posters who feel that adequate housing is not essential, I'd love to see how they felt about trying to get by without it for a couple of weeks, especially in winter. Each night you and your children would potentially be at hugely increased risk of illness, crime, loss of essential belongings etc. I feel that in any country, but absolutely and definitely in this comparatively well-off one, a baby has a right to sleep without a rat in its carrycot (regardless of what his or her parents do, whether they work etc). To those who begrudge paying a bit of tax to ensure that doesn't happen... I don't get it

The trouble is too many people abuse what we do have.

Mil rented a house to an housing association the rent they paid didn't cover the mortgage but she was ok with that as the house is her retirement. Tenants trashed the place and she spent 20k putting it right.

She the rented it privately to a family for same rent as housing association (around £400 a month less than market value!) who again trashed the place.

Now my mil is the first person to say or every tenant or housing association is going to trash the place but can she be expected to keep forking out to redo the place (last tenant even cut through kitchen wall to garden to make a "dog flap"!) and provide cheap rent. Or does she take market value rent and hope the price is then high enough to deter tenants who won't treat the place we'll?

Rights can only be guaranteed if they do not take from others, eg liberty, free speech - once you get onto things that involve depriving others, why is it a right? One's right to a home also deprives someone better off of the right to freely spend their money. Enforcing the 'rights' of one group at the expense of another cannot be right correct

Some form of basic shelter should be a basic human right, because it is a basic human need. I think as a society we have a duty to make sure all of our members have a roof over their heads and something to eat.

That is not necessarily the same as "giving" them a house, as I also don't really think a single person living alone needs a whole house to themselves, so it could in some cases be shared accommodation, but it should be secure from the weather, and free from health hazards.

Sheesh. I can't believe that posters on here are even debating whether adequate shelter is a human right.

I'm discussing the concept of rights Sicaq. Are you saying a homeless person has the 'right' to steal to pay for shelter? If not, then why is it 'right' when the government does it on thier behalf?

I think a clean dry warm safe home should be a right for everyone.

Even a drunken thug on the street because he has been evicted for violence should have a bed, we can't set ourselves up as judge and jury and sentence someone to death by exposure, however much we dislike their attitude!

However, I do not agree with the expectation I so often come across for a private kitchen and bathroom.

If an individual or family has a decent bed/sitting room, or private suite, in a hostel, and share an kitchen and bathroom, I would consider them adequately housed.

Many graduates and working adults rent a room in shared accommodation for years, I was 30 before I had my own kitchen, yet I know many people who expect and demand this sort of luxury at a much younger age, and at the public expense.

To me, basic human rights should be applicable to all; the right to family, privacy, to observe religion, to not be persecuted, to not be a victim of violence, to free speech, to make choices about our own bodies and our beliefs, sexuality, opinions, safety. There are obviously numerous violations of these basic principles all over the world but they SHOULD apply to all and considered as such.

Our views (in the West) about housing are very different to what is acceptable in other parts of the world. The OP wasn't talking about 'shelter' , but about decent, adequate and affordable social housing - with a Western point of view of what that means.

Western views of what that means are very different to the rest of the world. That's why it is difficult to suggest OUR view of decent, adequate housing is a human right because human rights should apply to everyone, all over the world.

It is not a right. It is something that has to be worked for.

Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

Every human being should have a roof over their head, where they can be warm, dry and safe.

Even prisons have certain standards....prisoners don't have to work for this basic human right.

Some peoples idea of a decent home is very different to that of others, though.

I think there's no excuse for everyone not to be entitled to and provided decent housing in a country that can afford it. In saying that, with rights come responsibilities, the entitlement should be dependent on being a considerate neighbour, taking care of your home, contributing positively to the neighbourhood/society.

The minority of neighbours from hell that like to ruin it for all by transforming anywhere they live into a shithole should have the privilege of living with others like themselves, far away from civilised people, where they'd be entitled to compete to see who can cause the most trouble or create the worst mess.

Who pays for this 'right'?

No gold plated bath taps or crystal chandeliers involved carol. Don't panic.

Who pays for this 'right'? The same people who pay for education, legal representation, the Courts, hospitals, Police to defend your rights, Social Workers who make sure children have someone to stop them being abused, soldiers to put those weird blue hats on for the UN, the Passport Office (goodness help us) and consular assitance to ensure freedom of movement and the right to a country.

Unless you think all those rights are bollocks too.

I've never thought of having a roof over my head as a 'right'... I've just always worked VERY hard to ensure I DO have one over my head.. Without imposing on others (ie tax payers). I have no grandeurs of entitlement.. We need to work for what we have in life.

I pay a stupidly high rent but then have a lovely home in a good area.

Oh dear it really saddens me that some posters seem to like playing the Who pays for this right? and Oh the poor tax payers cards.

Yes there are bad tenants as are there bad LLs but to tbh they are in the minority and are constantly tarring the good tenants/LLs reputation. Is it fair to tar all with the same brush?????

IMHO it is a basic human right to have adequate shelter, whether you are in a position that you can pay for it yourself or not. Sadly in the present unempathetic, uncompassionate climate that is not happening.

If you saw an animal stranded outside with no shelter how many of you would try to secure adequate shelter for them??????

OP YANBU at all.

yanbu op its awful. thankfully I have a home but an grateful every day.

all this 'you work for it' Unfortunately in many areas the low paid can work all they like but will still be nowhere near.

there is of course the argument that hb pushes up the prices but god knows what the solution to that is

I hope the people who think this is not a right won't mind if the police pop round and torture you later.

'it deprives someone better off the right to spend their money freely'

Have a word with yourself!

I love threads like this. of course it is a right but that's not the issue is it? the issue is how? how do we pay for it? how do we provide it? how do we define and determine what it is? the standards expected from housing change over the years, how do we accommodate this? how in particular do we make sure that everyone has a house fit in terms of size and location.

Igggi love that comment

CarolDecker and everyone else bemoaning the fact that someone has to pay for this right - I personally would be delighted to pay a few pence more tax if it meant that not one child ever had to wake up with a rat in its cot again, or that nobody had to sleep in a shop doorway in the depths of winter. It's called compassion isn't it? And common sense. People who are adequately housed will, in the vast majority of cases, lead healthier more productive lives. Which surely benefits the whole of society, as well as the individual.
And what about children? Would you deny a baby the right to adequate housing because the parents don't work? Also let's not forget people find themselves unable to pay their way for a variety of reasons. Ill health, job loss... It could happen to anyone. It could happen to you.

I totally agree that Thatcher ballsed up social housing in this country and for some reason subsequent Labour governments haven't seen fit to reverse the mess she made. Under this lot it'll never happen. What's needed is a massive social housing building programme. Don't forget that rents generated from SH don't disappear into a black hole - they benefit the local community, so once again, everyone wins.

My home is very basic - we don't even have a shower or garden! - but over a decade it's become OUR home. DD has grown up here, we've made all our memories here. We're incredibly grateful for it. I may be idealistic but I really do believe that all children should have that start on life.

*in life

Oh and re private landlords - there needs to be a system of rigorously enforced inspection and licensing and fair rents. Although in an ideal world there would be enough social housing to go around so landlords wouldn't be able to exploit the poorest, but now I really am being idealistic!