To think driving 20 miles under the speed limit is really dangerous?

[Subtext]

There's a long stretch of B road near my parents' place where the speed limit is 60 mph.

I can't tell you how many times I've been stuck behind someone pootling along at 40mph. It happened again today and this time the person I was stuck behind was indicating right for the whole length of the two mile stretch. Ie shit driver.

It's so annoying. And apart from anything else it's really dangerous to drive too slowly. Really boils my piss.

AIBU to think if the speed limit is 60 you should more or less attempt to drive at 60?

I used to work in an area where I was constantly driving around country lanes and was told to always drive as if there's a horse around the next corner, or a biker just fallen off his bike. There was one horrific incident while I was there where a driver had slammed into the back of a horse and rider at 60 and caused terrible injuries, zipping around a corner with no idea what was ahead. I did have people hurling their toys out of their pram behind me at times but I wasn't driving slowly, just carefully, and they had the option of overtaking me if they chose.

I now live on a dual carriageway that I use daily, and sweat blood over elderly drivers travelling carefully along at 30mph with the traffic moving at 60-80. Its impossible to judge speed until you're quite close to a slow moving car, I've had people nearly re end me when I've been trapped behind a slow moving car and seen so many near misses. My grandfather did this in the last year or so when we couldn't persuade him to stop driving and he really needed to, and it scared the living daylights out of me.

Nope. Still can't see why any one would be stressed by adding 60 seconds to their journey time.

I failed my test once for driving too slowly and once for driving top fast, both on 60mph roads and both times I was driving between 40mph and 60mph (can't remember exact speeds). I think it's just common sense to say that speed should be determined by an assessment of that particular road rather than saying 40mph is categorically unsafe in a 60mph zone.

Yanbu.

The "limit not a target" is a fallacy when weather is good. Driving instructor erm...teach you to drive to the speed limit.

I have noticed that the people who tend to drive at 40mph on 60 roads are also inclined to do so in 20 and 30 mph zones. Also are distinctly unfamiliar with their indicators.

I've noticed much the same with people who drive ridiculously fast, tailgating despite there being nowhere for you to go because you are actually going faster than the 40mph drivers in the other lane/ you are on a country lane with a tractor in front of you.

To distinct but not entirely dissimilar types of drivers who should all go on refresher courses.

Just because a road has a national speed limit sign on it doesn't mean its been checked for anything.

You drive at a speed based on conditions and the vehicle type. I do get annoyed by people driving 40 in 60's and 40 through 30's as though you have reduced the results of a head on, you are creating a speed difference with traffic behind you and also you are going to kill anything in the 30 areas.

It's not just 60 seconds difference though. That's the time if one car blows along at 40 as opposed to 60. Driving on smaller doesn't work like that.
As people say, you have to slow right down for potholes, blind corners, other road users , drivers turning right etc etc.
unfortunately so does the 40 mile an hour person.
So the difference is someone varying speeds from quite fast to quite slow and someone going slow and even slower.
If you want to see how a minute affects your driving time consider level crossings. Our crossing that takes 4 minutes gridlocks at least 5 roads. So you might only have a 4 minute wait if you are the first but a few cars down takes longer to sort out.

Our lane has a national speed limit sign at the top of it.

It's a single track road with a 90 degree bend in it. Every sensible person drives about 10mph down it, because of you did 60 you'd end up in the river at the side of the bend.

If the road is full of pot holes, blind corners, other road users and drivers turning right a 40 mile an hour driver is probably maintaining an appropriate speed.

Hmmm, depends. I live in, and learnt to drive in, London. When I go to my hometown which is fairly rural I shit myself driving on the single lane 60mph roads. I'm used to city driving not country driving. So I'm probably one of those pootlers - I just can't bring myself to go 60 down a twisty-turny single track road which I'm unfamiliar with. I only indicate when needed though .

"The "limit not a target" is a fallacy when weather is good." I dare you to drive even 40 up and down Ditchling Beacon. Then don't go crying when you get done for death by dangerous driving. 60 is not a fecking target.

I'm going to share a picture with you. It will out me but I don't really give a toss. This was my sisters car after driving around a nice wide bend near our home town slightly too fast (45mph-ish) It's one that I've driven around many times at that speed and faster.

imgur.com/FdSs6GG

If she'd had a friend in the car with her they would be dead. It's a miracle that she got out with minor injuries. Before this happened I may have sat firmly on the fence on this issue and not really bothered to get passionate about discussing it. After seeing this picture and realising how fucking close I came to losing my sister I realised how fucking petty it is to get arsey about people going that bit slower.

Wobbly (page 1 comment) - Your statement about being pulled over in the US for doing 20 under is a little misleading. I know this because our road signs here in the MidWest have a 45 miniumum (there are signs) for a 65 road, leads me to believe MORE than 20 under isn't permitted.

Either way, it's only dangerous if you come up on them suddenly, or they join the rest of traffic sitting that slowly.

Otherwise, slow down and calm down.

am just amazed that people who have ended up having to brake sharply when coming up behind a slow moving vehicle have blamed the slow moving vehicle rather than their misjudgement of a safe stopping distance. You should start braking - gently - when the car in front comes near to or hits the edge of your safe stopping distance, then continue to brake if appropriate. I can't see how, if you understand what a safe stopping distance is, you can end up braking hard. You must have been too close to the vehicle in front in the first place, which is your fault and a cause for personal introspection, not blaming someone else!

Agree Pomeral, and I'd like to add, if you don't brake quickly enough and end up crashing into the slower moving vehicle YOU will be criminally responsible for any damage, injuries and deaths, as you are obviously driving either dangerously or carelessly.

No matter how you butter it up, you will be responsible.

Pixie I haven't clicked on your link, as I said upthread, my dd lost her 17 year old best friend to a driver, going too fast. I'm glad your sister is ok, and thank you for posting the photo. I hope the 60 brigade take a look at it.

pixie

I was referring more to straight clear roads.

I know what happens when people make mistakes driving. My step sister was killed in a car crash last weekend. I don't need you to "share a picture" with me. Ta ever so.

Excuse My younger sister also lost two friends at that age. It's bloody awful.

Alis Then why not say that? Why not say "On a clear straight road it's a fallacy." because in those scenarios, I agree with you. Why I am disputing is the bollocks that 60 is always okay on national limit roads, which it is not. It is not just you I am sharing the photo with, FWIW. I am sharing it to all who feel that their day will be ruined by having to go 40 for a few minutes.
I am sorry for your loss

YABU It is not the people driving at 40 that are the danger, it is the impatient beggars like yourself overtaking inappropriately that are dangerous!!!!

It's the people who drive at 40 then don't slow down when they reach a 30 zone that are most dangerous imo. Generalising hugely but they seem to be people of a certain age, with slower reactions. The sort that could easily kill a child that ran out.

I'm on the fence on this one.

I can't abide bad drivers. That would include single-speeders (the 40mph regardless crew) and people who over or under-react to conditions (rapid braking / no braking).

As a rule & in good conditions, the speed limit is probably appropriate on most A roads I've been on and always on the motorway.

Having said that you don't know why they are doing a lower speed. Our larger car is a mid-range turbo diesel. Nothing special but it can move. You'd probably have been really pissed off sitting behind me doing 50 on a bypass a few weeks ago, but seeing as the car was on the temporary spare, which is limited to 50, I had no choice. You probably wouldn't have known that sitting behind me.

Our smaller car is very small indeed. It can't handle speed bumps at 20mph, doesn't like cornering sharply. In fact, these are the reasons I would never buy one again, but as I'm currently running it (and it costs buttons to run) I just bite my tongue when other road users get aggressive on bends and consider how I'd tan them in the turbo diesel yes, aggressive Ford Fiesta commuter who clearly lives and works near me, I'm looking at you....sorry got sidetracked.

Incidentally as a regular road cyclist, I couldn't give a shiny shit how fast you go past me as long as you give me space. I'd rather be overtaken at 60mph by someone who's pulled out and watching the road ahead, than some chancre 'slowing down' to 30/40 to 'creep' past me with inches to spare.

Any single lane road in a non-built up area (i.e. without street lighting) in this country has a default maximum speed limit of 60mph. The idea that it is therefore safe to drive on all these roads at 60, 40 or even 30 mph is clearly bonkers.

Added to that, like it or not, these aren't motorways and there often isn't an alternative route. Sometimes you will come across slow drivers.

I've been sent on defensive driving courses on overseas postings where accidents are commonplace and life is more precarious.

Part of the course has been to show the most horrendous photographs. Participants have had to guess the speed the cars was going. We guessed very high speeds again and again, due to the terrible, unimaginable damage we saw to cars and to bodies. We generally overestimated by between 50 and 100mph because we could not believe that so much damage may be caused at 40mph.

I have had it drummed into me that it is my job to anticipate problems at any moment. Whinging about other drivers was considered stupid - your safety and that of others is your responsibility. but I was taught psychological tips to deal with tailgaters and to get them to hang back - one of the most dangerous kinds of motorist in terms of accidents apparently. I wish these kinds of courses were compulsory here.

Slip That's what terrified me so much about my sister's car. I knew she'd been in an accident, flipped the car over a fence and hit something stationary, but it was only when I saw the photos that I realised how much damage could be caused at such a relatively low speed. It's so terrifying. So many control these massive pieces of machinery with no appreciation of just how much damage and injury they can cause.

I always thought it was dangerous because if someone's driving at the speed limit and they come up behind you doing 20mph faster than you, then depending on the conditions and visibility, they could slam right up the back of you. Or at least have to brake dangerously themselves.

Hmmm, no car should be 'coming up behind doing 20mph faster than you' - that's dangerous because yes they could ' slam right up the back of you'. That's bad driving too and far more dangerous than driving 20mph slower than 60mph.

There are a lot of posters who are 'driven mad' by slower drivers. Get over yourselves and remember your responsibility to drive safely whatever the conditions.

I drive to and from work on a wonderful 60mph stretch. I love nothing more than bombing down it but sometimes there is a car or lorry driving at 40mph so I can't. Do I get mad and pissed off? No, because that would impair my judgement. I settle back, give them space (no intimidating by driving up their arse), and carry on singing (soundtrack from Moulin Rouge my fave at the moment ).

slipshodsybil would you mind sharing some of those tips? Tailgaters terrify me and I'd like to have some tools to try and get them to hang back a bit!

Well it's a bit difficult to explain because we did it practically, by venturing out with the instructor for four whole hours and 'catching' tailgaters - very easy in some countries. It has to do with things like positioning the car on the road and demonstrating a great deal of confidence which is the last thing most of us have when we are being intimidated.

I have done several refreshers (employers' required it) and they are available from specialist instructors here if you google them. I have , ever since, tried hard to drive defensively , wherever I am as that is the main lesson really. No point in telling the paramedics that it was the other driver's fault.